Posted on 03/30/2019 8:12:59 AM PDT by Salvation
Question: I had reason to hope my niece was going to convert to the Catholic faith. But there were so many obstacles the Church set up that discouraged her. She was asked to go to classes, and they told her that her marriage was not valid and she would need an annulment. Further, it was necessary to wait until Easter, etc. The nearby evangelical church set up no such obstacles, and she was able to join at once and be considered a member. I hear so much talk of evangelization today, but I share my niece’s frustration. Can we not streamline this process?
— Name withheld
Answer: There is a kind of appealing simplicity that you describe in many Protestant denominations. But there are problems with the approach that should give us pause. Ultimately evangelization is more about conversion than mere membership. We are summoned to embrace the saving teaching of the Lord and to walk according to it.
Because adults make informed decisions, the Church considers it important to teach them the fundamentals of the Faith so that they can know what it is they are agreeing to when they enter the Church. Although some of the Scriptures portray an almost instant, on-the-spot baptism, the consensus in the early Church shifted to a lengthy, three-year period of instruction (called the catechumenate) prior to baptism. This likely was because of the insight that quick conversions often led to quick departures or a falling away when the true demands of discipleship became known.
Instructions are most insisted upon for those who are unbaptized. In the case of those who are baptized and come from different Protestant denominations, the length and content of instructions will depend on their background. It is up to the discretion of the pastor who discerns with each individual what is needed. It is certainly not required for those already baptized to “wait until next Easter.”
The concerns about a person’s marital status are rooted in the very words and teachings of Jesus himself. He teaches without ambiguity that for a person to marry, then divorce and enter another marriage, puts them in an ongoing state of adultery in the “new” marriage (cf. Mt 5:32; Mt 19:1-9; Mk 10:11-12; Lk 16:18, etc). He adds rather firmly, “What God has joined together, let no one divide” (Mt 19:9).
It will be further noted that when the Lord was evangelizing the woman at the well, he brought her to a moment of conversion, and she asked for the gift of faith. But the Lord Jesus saw fit to first raise with her the fact that she had been married five times and was now living with a man outside of marriage. Her conversion would not be complete or adequate until she was willing to live chastely. Then the graces could flow.
For reasons of their own, many Protestant denominations have decided to practically overlook such passages. But the Catholic Church takes the Lord’s teaching on these matters rather seriously, as he clearly intended that we should. In some cases, after an investigation based on evidence, the Church may use its power to bind and loose, to indicate that the previous marriage was not “what God has joined,” and it recognizes the first marriage as null. A person’s current marriage then can be blessed and recognized. But we simply cannot set the Lord’s words aside as if they were of little importance.
Thus some conversions to the Catholic faith will take some time to be faithful to the teachings of the Lord and the nature of true conversion. It is worth the diligence required.
“The scope of the molestation of minors by Roman Catholic hierarchy extends around the world and throughout the history of Roman Catholicism.”
The scope of the molestation of minors by Protestant hierarchy extends around the world and throughout the history of Protestantism.
https://religionnews.com/2015/12/07/spotlight-its-not-just-a-catholic-problem/
https://www.missioalliance.org/resource-list-7-articles-on-sexual-abuse-and-the-church/
https://stopabusecampaign.org/2018/01/08/more-sexual-abuse-in-the-protestant-churches-than-catholic/
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
With liberal democrats flocking to church on Sundays to hear the gospel from these heretics “married to other fags”. homosexual, child molesting priests.
God doesn’t grade on a curve.
Lead by example.
Catholicism claims it’s the ONE TRUE CHURCH.
When it it going to start obeying the Scripture that it claims it gave the world and start acting like it?
FWIW, every Christian church I’ve attended where moral failure has come to light, has addressed it. The person is removed from the membership rolls and if they are a pastor, their credentials have been pulled and they are no longer in the pulpit.
Most articles about non-Catholic clergy include phrases like *arrested*, *facing charges* *jail* as opposed to the Catholic response of *moved to a different diocese for fresh victims.
Beside4s, the elephant in the room that Catholics keep ignoring, isn’t that moral failure occurs, but how it’s dealt with. And Roman Catholicism dropped that ball centuries ago.
It’s ok. Sometimes the truth hurts
Excellent
It is okay Salvation. It is not going to happen and that is fine with me. This was eight years ago and i could be wrong about the three years but I don’t think so. Whatever it was was ridiculously lengthy and repetetive since he was already baptized and confirmed. This is from the same religious coordinator who said we had to have our children fully naked and submerged to be baptized. After going back and forth about it we ended up getting them baptized at my parents church instead. Maybe we just have an over zealous person at our church.
I completely agree.
Did Christ build His church?
“The Holy Spirit is called down two times by the priest.”
Amazing a priest can give orders to God... Shazam!
“Well I have problems with many Protestant faiths openly supporting abortion and having openly queers and lesbians as pastors.”
Catholicism became the gayest of all religions in history, from the Vatican on down.
30-45% of catholic priests are likely gay.
Is yours?
His church (like the sabbath) is for the benefit of man, not the other way around.
And you deflect. Receiving Christ is the ONLY requirement for salvation. Christ, not the church, saves.
The corporate church, the Body of Christ is for God’s blessing, but making it a requirement for salvation is confusion and false doctrine.
I don’t appreciate the insinuation that I’m lying.
I didn’t want to get married in the church by that time in my life especially after the molestation arrempts against me by a priest and Christian Brother.
My father was the one who paid the money and said they “suggested” a donation, not a fee or charges for my wedding.
He then told me the church wanted me to go to confession before hand and I refused.
They still married my wife and I on a Saturday in a small side chapel with about 10 people present. I don’t know if an extra “fee” was paid for the ceremony but do know $5000 was paid ahead of time.
Looks like you didn’t get any takers on your swipe at me.
You should go to confession. Please know I forgive you.
Take care.
There is a difference in what the Catholic Church teaches as Jesus taught about abortion and homosexuality and what some individual Catholics practice.
Even priests, Bishops and laity as sinners and will be judged by God for their sins and leading others into sin. Some follow the ways of the world, while others will follow Jesus and spread the Good News. We need to pray for their souls so that they fully repent and follow God.
The Catholic Church firmly teaches the Ten Commandments and most Catholics try to live by them and the two commandments of Jesus to love God and neighbor.
Obviously some Catholics do not and tend to give Catholicism a bad reputation. Remember Jesus told us to remove the beam from our own eye than to try to remove the splinter from someone else.
I agree with you that any Catholic that votes for allowing abortion practices is causing problems for their soul. The Catholic Church does not overlook or excuse any sin.
Yes Democrats and some Republicans steal money and spend it unwisely. It is too bad that many do not live a moral God-fearing life and benefit from the graces that God provides for us.
I don’t know of any Church that claims salvation comes from anyone but Christ. I honestly don’t.
>>>. After my dad got his marriage annulled after 29 years and made me an official bastard
Why would you say such a vile untruth about yourself? <<<<
It made no difference to me. By that time in my life anything the Catholic Church did or said was meaningless.
>>>>. I got a girl pregnant at age 18 and both families insisted on a Catholic wedding. Ended up coming down to giving them $5000 then all ok in the Catholic God’s eyes !
Churches do not charge that large of a facility/clean up fee, again, your families may have paid that much for the wedding in total but not to the Church. <<<<<
In the case of the $5000 my dad paid it was coached to him as a “donation” which he paid. The wedding itself was in a small side chapel with about 10 people present and was over quickly.
The only other time after that I went to a service held in the church was 40 years later when my father had requested I speak for his eulogy .... already hard enough to lose hiim, It was most likely his way of trying to get me to come back to the church ... I will never be back but don’t begrudge anyone if they think it’s their path to God.
Take care
Actually when my wife and I were looking around for churches to get married in we asked my home parish first and they asked about $5000 too for the use of the church. It really depends on the area I think and the beauty of the particular church building in question etc. Market forces in other words.
We actually ended up getting married at San Marco in Venice (yes that one) and remarkably that only cost 1,000 euro. It was a miracle really too long a story to tell how we were able to pull that off (we aren’t famous or anything) but it was my wife’s magic really (she’s Italian so that helped too).
Anyway all this is to say it really depends on the church in question I’d say and it’s not “buying” the Sacrament itself, as some might think. It’s paying for using a building it’s nothing more scandalous than that. Shouldn’t get hung up on the price it’s whatever people are willing to pay for use of the church (building).
Salvation is right though, an anullment doesnt bastardize children. It doesn’t say anything about children at all so you weren’t “made a bastard” when your parents got an annulment (jcon40).
I’m sorry to read about all the trials you suffered at the hands of clergy in the Church though. I’ll keep you in prayer. Please try to forgive those involved, it’s really the only way to be set free of such evil.
Jesus is presently building His church, one soul at a time, and it’s name is *the Bride of Christ*, not *Roman Catholicism*.
No religious organization can claim to be THE church that Jesus said He would build.
If that were the case, then EVERY person who was Catholic would be saved, no matter what, and no one who wasn’t saved could ever get to heaven, no matter what.
The Pharisees thought that they had it in the bag because they were physically descended from Abraham, and Jesus shot that down pretty quickly.
It’s all about faith, trusting in Jesus alone, and not church affiliation, membership, or religious rites and rituals.
And we have problems with Catholicism ordaining homosexual men who they later enable to molest minors.
Catholics don't seem to have a problem staying Catholic what with the shenanigans of their church hierarchy and yet condemn others for the very things they give their church a pass on.
SOME?
Based on voting patterns, that ought to be *most*.
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