Is Jesus God?

Depths of Pentecost ^ | February 16, 2019 | Philip Cottraux

[daniel1212]

Sinlessness; all the way down.

And meaning all the way down as perhaps implicitly requiring virginity.

[ravenwolf]

I will answer your dozen posts in one comment.

You believe Jesus was God in the flesh
then it would follow that Mary would be his mother, I have no problem with that.

[af_vet_1981]

I'm not Catholic. Nothing you said makes any sense to me.

Perhaps from a nonCatholic then:

Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son; and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.

Present-day groups that hold to forms of this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus, and require baptism for salvation. These modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

[ravenwolf]

You said you like to keep it even simpler, yet you and others send me many
scriptures supposedly proving that the man Jesus was God in the flesh, and
you have a convincing argument.

At the same time you deny that Mary could be called the mother of God, that
is far from simple because if you prove that Jesus was actually God in the
flesh you are also proving that Mary was the mother of this God in the flesh.

Was Jesus God or was he the son of God?, I will not argue that point but see no
way we can have it both ways.

[Elsie]

And I think you will get more vociferous responses...

I don't think so; I've seen the EVIDENCE!

[Elsie]

You believe Jesus was God in the flesh...

Yes; I do.

---

Ecclesiastes 12:7
... before the dust returns to the ground from which it came, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

---

The Bible shows that there were at least TWO of 'something' that created all that we see (and all that we can't), and the Bible shows

Luke 1:35
The angel replied, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and …

Mary having 'something' done to her; then it follows that she did NOT receive just another 'spirit from GOD; but the actual SPIRIT of GOD, instead.

The 'Jesus' that was then born 9 months later was a unique 'human'.

Thus when HE states "the Father is in Him", we came see just WHY HE said that.

---

... then it would follow that Mary would be his mother, I have no problem with that.

Mary is the mother of the human part; the GOD part had no Father.

Thus; when the question is asked, "Who was Jesus praying to?", the HUMAN side of Him replied, "My father in heaven."

The GOD side of Him replied, "I and the Father are ONE."

I hope this helps a bit.

[Elsie]

Was Jesus God or was he the son of God?

The best answer I can give is Yes.

Jesus told Nicodemus, "You must be born again."

And Nicodemus replied, "WHAT??!!??"

And then he asked Jesus things that only his natural, human mind could conceive of.

---

So it is with the triple nature of GOD that we find throughout the Bible.

Sometimes you can study your way into understanding these things; at other times it happens in an "AhHA!" moment.

[Elsie]

At the same time you deny that Mary could be called the mother of God,

Mary COULD be called lots of things - just witness the history of the Catholic church - but she is NOT called the 'mother of GOD' in the Bible.

[Elsie]

just witness the history of the Catholic church

---

 

---

---

 

The way it's written:

 

Galatians 4:4-5

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, ⁵ to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

 

 

 

The way Rome teaches it:

 

Galatians 4:4-5

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a....

 

Co-Redemptrix, 
Ark of the Covenant,

Beloved daughter of the Father,
Favoured Daughter of the Father,

Cause of Our Joy,

Cause of our Salvation,
Comfort of the Afflicted,
Destroyer of Heresy,
Ever-virgin ,
Gate of Heaven,
God-bearer,

Great Mother,
Health of the Sick,

Heavenly Chariot,
Help of Christians,
Holy Mary,
Holy Mother of God,
Holy Virgin of Virgins,
House of Gold,
Joy of the Just,
Majesty,
Mirror of Justice,
Morning Star,
Most Holy,
Mother Admirable,
Mother Inviolate,
Mother Most Amiable,
Mother Most Chaste,
Mother Most Pure,
Mother of Christ,
Mother of Divine Grace,
Mother of God,
Mother of Good Counsel,
Mother of Mercy,
Mother of Orphans,
Mother of Our Creator,
Mother of Our Redeemer,
Mother of Sorrows,
Mother of the Church,
Mother of the Poor,
Mother of the Word,

Mother of the Word Incarnate,
Mother Thrice Admirable,
Mother Undefiled,
Mystical Rose,
Nova Eva (the New Eve),
Our Lady of Compassion,
Our Lady of Confidence,
Our Lady of Victory,
Our Lady, Star of the Sea,
Our Mother of Perpetual Help,
Queen Assumed Into Heaven,
Queen Conceived Without Original Sin,
Queen of All Saints,
Queen of Angels,
Queen of Apostles,
Queen of Confessors,
Queen of Families,
Queen of Heaven,
Queen of Martyrs,
Queen of Patriarchs,
Queen of Peace,
Queen of Prophets,
Queen of the Most Holy Rosary,
Queen of Virgins,
Ravisher of Hearts,
Refuge of Sinners,

Resplendant car,
Seat of Wisdom,
She Who Shows the Way,
Singular Vessel of Devotion,
Spiritual Vessel,

Spouse of the Holy Spirit,

Sovereign Mistress of the Angels, 
Tabernacle of the Lord,

Temple of the Holy Spirit,
Temple of the Most Holy Trinity,
Throne of Wisdom,
Tower of David,
Tower of Ivory,
Treasure House of God's Graces,
Untier of Knots,
Vessel of Honor,
Virgin God-bearer,
Virgin Most Faithful,
Virgin Most Merciful,
Virgin Most Powerful,
Virgin Most Prudent,
Virgin Most Renowned,
Virgin Most Venerable

Virgin of virgins,                           born under the law, ⁵ to HELP redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship; sooner or later; and not spend TOO much time in Purgatory.

 

 

 

[ravenwolf]

Mary is the mother of the human part of God

---

That is exactly what I was getting at, that
is keeping it simple, other wise it is nothing
but confusion and contradictions.

[Elsie]

Ok; we are fine then.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Catholics do not teach, and have never taught, that Mary is the eternal origin of God. But as mother (the Greek says it better: God-bearer) she did give Him the experience of birth. He exerienced being born.

To whom did Mary give birth? One person only: Jesus Christ.

As Jesus is one person, and Mary did indeed bear Him in her womb and give Him birth, she is the mother of God.

He drank mama-milk, don't you think? And from whom? His mother. This does not mean she gave Him existence. He was existent before her for eternity, where He is, was and will be beyond time and space, forever. He is her Creator, and before she conceived Him, she called Him "God my Savior."

But she gave him birth, at a particular historic time and a particular geographic location, and the fact that she gave Him birth secures the fact that He is one Person, not two.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"He went down with them [Mary and Joseph] and came to Nazareth and was obedient to them." (Luke 2:50)

And was obedient to them. Imagine that. It must be He kept the commandments, like "Honor thy father and thy mother."

[Mrs. Don-o]

Well, that is heresy. (I mean that in the nicest way possible.)

Jesus said "The Father and I are One." "Before Abraham came to be, I AM." Was he wrong?

Thomas said "My Lord and my God." Was he wrong?

And don't you think about a couple of billion people have searched the Scriptures and thought about this long and hard,for 20 centuries, before you did?

None of these are new questions.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The Father and the Son are separate persons.

But I wouldn't say they are separate "entities" unless you think "entity" means "person." But it doesn't. Not exactly.

"Entity" means more like "being." The Godhead is One in Being: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three Persons, one God.

But anyway, "entity" is too inexact. It's too general, like "anything that exists."

"We were in contact with some kind of entity out there in our lunar orbit, but we don't know it if was human, some other intelligent species, or AI."

So I don't think "entity" is the best English term to use.

Good thing God chose Greek for the Gospel of John! It's excellent for deep semantic background.

Καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος -- Kaì theòs ên ho lógos -- And the Word was God.

[Elsie]

To whom did Mary give birth? One person only: Jesus Christ.

Too bad the Book that Rome gave the world says something different.

Heck; Rome has even spun it's story of Joseph and Mary into a platonic relationship where they NEVER enjoyed sexual activities.

 

1 Corinthians 7:1-5

1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”
2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband.
3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.
4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.
5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

[Elsie]

And don't you think about a couple of billion people have searched the Scriptures and thought about this long and hard,for 20 centuries, before you did?

An yet the Catholic teaching from Peter must have lacked something; or else them seven churches in Revelation 1-3 would have been perfect; right?

[Mrs. Don-o]

I'm repeating what you wrote because it's so... odd.

An yet the Catholic teaching from Peter must have lacked something; or else them seven churches in Revelation 1-3 would have been perfect; right?"

What in the world are you getting at?

At no point does John insinuate that the Catholic teaching from Peter to these churches was false or lacking.

And ---do you even have grounds to saying Peter taught to these seven churches? John doesn't even name particular apostles as their teachers. (If I am wrong about this , please give me a verse.)

On the supposal that they *were* taught and pastored directly by some Apostles, I would have to assume that it would have been , at least in part, John who was thir teacher. And when they were in error, they had at those points departed from these sound Apostolic teachings. Not that the Apostles' teachings were defective.

If the Apostles' teachings were defective,you might as well throw out your New Testament, because we got the NT from them.

[Elsie]

And when they were in error, they had at those points departed from these sound Apostolic teachings. Not that the Apostles' teachings were defective.

Poorly catechized Catholics.

Got 'em from Day One!!