The Holy Spirit always will 'take you through' a tribulation....just as He has taken His people 'through' for over 2,000 years.....He's not going to change now..
There is not one word supporting a pre-trib rapture to be found in the Bible.
But there is Paul’s massive declaration to the Thessalonians that there cannot be any rapture until a list of specific things have come to pass.
None of them have so far happened.
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By the way,we are one year into “Daniel’s 70th Sabbath.”
That means that in 6 years the gathering of the Bride of Yeshua will occur on the Day Of Trunpets, ending Satan’s tribulation of said bride.
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No, it’s not; it’s contrary to scripture; and your declaration does change that fact. http://westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com/revelation-made-clear
TL;DR.
But I did read this. And this is the only part worth mentioning.
“Not a salvation issue”
And since this is true, all the rest of these opinions are immaterial.
Pastor wants to pack his Bible study, announce a 10 part study on the book of Revelation. Pastor wants some alone time, announce a Bible study on witnessing to your neighbor.
I agree with most of your analysis, esp. the pre-trib rapture. This is also supported by the Left Behind books and even moreso the book: The Truth Behind Left Behind [gives precise tribulation scriptures and explanations for each. So I mostly disagree with the prior post from Editor-Surveyor but that’s nothing new.
Will have to complete reading your entire post later tonight but I feel far too many believers think we are very near - mostly because it sells more books. I know it can happen at any time but I also now know that there are several thousand people groups, tribes, nations that have not yet heard the Gospel. Also 3 major signs of the end times are worldwide a) religion, b) monetary system, c) language that are not very close.
I must admit the pace of change far surpasses anything I’ve ever expected since my faith was born [1980], where each decade passes with more and more evil BUT...
IMHO we are still very far from all of these = most likely not in our lifetimes.
Best to be pan-millennial.
Follow Christ and see how it pans out.
None of the positions must be believed for salvation.
That said, if I’m alive, I expect to meet the Lord in the air and always be with the Lord.
A single named person with no bio so I can see what her built in biases are
No thanks
FYI not all agree with this notion
The Holy Spirit always will 'take you through' a tribulation....just as He has taken His people 'through' for over 2,000 years.....He's not going to change now.Lots of detail in that work. Good job. FYI - I think the dead in christ are already rising. Have been for years. Just my opinion on where we might be in that timeline.
The Transfiguration was the glorification of the human body of Jesus. On this occasion His body underwent a change in form, a metamorphosis, so that it shone as brightly as the sun. At the time of the Transfiguration, Jesus’ earthly ministry was coming to a close. He had acknowledged that He was the Messiah and predicted His death and resurrection. Now He was to reveal, to a select few, His divine glory.
The Bible gives this account:
Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother brought them up on a high mountain by themselves, and was transfigured before them. his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with him . . . A bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear him!’ And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. But Jesus came and touched them and said, ‘Arise, and do not be afraid.’ And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only (Matthew 17:1-3,5-8).
Jesus told Peter, James, and John not to tell anyone about this until after He had risen from the dead.
Years Later Peter Recalled The Event
Some years later Simon Peter would write of this event:
For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to him from the excellent glory: ‘This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.’ And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain (2 Peter 1:16-18).
Jesus Is The Son Of God
The Transfiguration provides further evidence that Jesus was the divine Son of God. It is not coincidental that this happened soon after Jesus had acknowledged Himself to be the Christ, the one who left heaven’s glory to come to earth. Now three of His disciples were to get a glimpse of that glory.
The appearance of Moses and Elijah with Jesus is highly significant. The name Moses was equated with the Old Testament law that God had given to the people. Jesus came and fulfilled the commandments of the law and did the things the law could not do, that is, to provide an answer for the problem of sin. The law pointed out the problem; Jesus gave the solution.
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ (John 1:17).
Elijah was an outstanding figure in the Old Testament. He was a great prophet and his appearance with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration testified that Jesus fulfilled the prophets, as well as the law.
The voice of God the Father gave further confirmation of the calling and Sonship of Jesus. He acknowledged that Jesus had pleased Him in the things He had said and done.
It Represented His Coming Kingdom
The Transfiguration scene of Jesus is a representation of His coming kingdom in its fullness. Jesus Himself said to His disciples.
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom (Matthew 16:28).
The Transfiguration occurred with Jesus and three of His disciples - Peter, James, and John. Moses and Elijah miraculously appeared with Jesus. At the foot of the mountain were the remainder of Jesus’ disciples and the multitudes.
When one considers the various individuals and groups involved, it paints a marvelous picture of Jesus’ coming kingdom.
Jesus Himself
First, there is the Lord Jesus in His glorified body.
There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light (Matthew 17:2)
He will rule in His coming kingdom in His glorified body.
Moses
Moses, in his glorified body, represented the saved that will enter God’s kingdom through death.
Elijah
Elijah never died. He represents those believers who enter the kingdom of God by the translation or the rapture of the church.
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed - in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality (1 Corinthians 15:50-53).
Jesus’ Disciples
Peter, James, and John in their natural bodies depict those Jewish believers who will enter the coming kingdom.
The Various Nations That Will Make Up The Kingdom
The multitude of people, left at the base of the mountain, represent the various nations who will enter the kingdom of God in their natural or non-glorified bodies.
In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea. He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth (Isaiah 11:10-12).
Summary
The Transfiguration is significant because it was the glorification of the body of Jesus. Those with Him saw Jesus in His glory. The appearance of Moses and Elijah testified that Jesus was the one of whom the law and prophets spoke. The approving testimony of God the Father further confirmed the identity of Jesus.
In the Transfiguration of Jesus we have the various elements of the coming kingdom represented. There is the glorified King, those who will come into the kingdom through death, those who will come into the kingdom through the transformation of their bodies at the rapture of the church, those Jewish believers who will enter into the millennial reign of Christ in their earthly bodies, as well as the people from the various nations who will also enter into the millennium in non-glorified bodies.
Since the fall of humanity, with Adam and Eve, the normal experience for each human has been death. The writer to the Hebrews stated.
And just as it is appointed for humans to die once, and after that the judgment (Hebrews 9:27).
As we read through the pages of the Old Testament, we find this truth emphasized. There were, however, two exceptions to this rule - Enoch and Elijah. Neither of these men died. The Bible says of them.
Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away (Genesis 5:24).
As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven (2 Kings 2:11).
A Mystery Revealed
Not only are Enoch and Elijah the exception to the rule about death, the New Testament reveals to us something that had not been foretold - there will be a generation of people who will never die.
Rapture Of The Church
Before Christ returns to earth there will be an event known as the “rapture,” or “translation” of the church. The Scripture explains it in the following manner.
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).
Another explanation is given in First Corinthians.
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the work of the Lord, because you know that in the Lord your labor is not in vain (1 Corinthians 15:51-58).
Observations
From these passages we can make the following observations.
1. Not Everyone Will Die
Although death has been the norm for humanity, the Old Testament recorded two prominent exceptions - Enoch and Elijah. The New Testament also says that a living generation of Christians will not experience death, but will be taken up to meet the Lord.
2. No Need Of Resurrection
Those believers who are living at the time of the rapture, or translation, of the church, will not have to be resurrected. They will be changed, while they are alive, from mortal to immortal, from corruptible to incorruptible.
3. Meet Christ
Those who are instantaneously changed at the time of the rapture of the church will be with Christ forever in their glorified body.
Summary
The resurrection from the dead will be what most believers experience. A small number in comparison will not die but will be changed as was the case with the Old Testament characters Enoch and Elijah. This event is known as the “rapture” or “translation” of the church.
In a word: Darby.
Long Article,,,
For later.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Paul thought he was going to be in on the rapture, ( that is if we think Paul was describing a literal live body going up in the air).
And every generation since the protestant reformation has thought they were the chosen ones to be in on the rapture.
What many don't seem to get is man's wrath can get pretty bad, but it's NOT God's wrath. If you were betrothed to a bride, would you allow her to be beaten and killed before the wedding? Would you allow your children to be tortured before you rescued them? Why wait even a moment watching your loved ones suffer? The Tribulation is for disobedient children, not your loved ones.
Next is Lev 23 Feast Days. If God fulfilled Passover on Passover, Unleavened Bread on Unleavened Bread, First Fruits on First Fruits, and Pentecost exactly on Pentecost, why would He randomly fulfill the Fall Feasts when we weren't expecting Him? If you proposed Marriage to a Bride, wouldn't you want her to know when to be ready for pickup? If we know Pentecost has already happened, why would the next Feast Day be Yom Kippur? Judgement day before the Feast of Trumpets? God doesn't work that way. The Rapture will be the next event in Gods calendar. Trumpets is when the crowning of the King will happen. The Marriage Feast of the Lamb will happen. There are many things that will happen on or near Trumpets. Why would we miss that? If you miss the Marriage of the Lamb, you ain't going.
I skimmed the article quickly, but it seemed well thought out and I have nothing else to add. I believe you could study it and be pretty much on track with sound reasoning.
Having said that, I have something else to add that many people don't speak of. In Mat 25, we read of wise and foolish virgins. Many seem to think the foolish virgins are "lost people". That's not want it says. It says they were "virgins" That means church members. Only virgins can marry the High Priest and they must be from Israel. That's why we must be adopted into God's Family to be eligible. They were obviously left behind because they weren't ready to go. The wise virgins had extra oil in extra vessels they carried with them. The foolish ones only had the oil in their lamps. Oil is the Holy Spirit. The foolish ones were left because they were NOT baptized in the Holy Spirit and were just Baptized in water. If you are Baptized in the Holy Spirit, you will see a definite difference in these people. They are NOT wishy washy, luke warm, pew sitters, and will hear from Jesus,"I never knew you". Going to church and paying your tithe doesn't get you a personal relationship with Jesus. Jesus is coming for a Bride, not an acquaintance that is not looking forward to His coming. I visualize a woman peeking out her window all dressed up and ready for her wedding night with her heart aflutter in anticipation of her lover coming to pick her up.
I've actually had conversations with people that said I hope Jesus doesn't come this summer cause I just put a pool in, or my cruise is in a week, or I want to watch my grand kids grow up.
They obviously don't have the right priorities. These are the people that we read about that are beheaded under the altar in Rev 6:9-11. These people were left behind and were forced to choose Jesus and a beheading or take the mark. God has made it plain all through Scripture we must die in the flesh to be His. You can kill your flesh in the Baptismal, or you can physically die by the executioners sword. Either way, in order to be the Bride of Christ we must give our lives to Him. If you drag the dead body out of the Baptism and carry him around with you, you are still trying to resuscitate the old man and are double minded.
Joh 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
We know Jesus is our friend, but are we a friend to Jesus? If you won't follow His commands, you aren't His friend. If you are a friend of Jesus, you will die to your flesh as he did for you. If that seems too much to ask, you don't understand what He did for you. All of the Apostles, save John, went to a violent death to serve Christ. If you won't follow His commands, you certainly won't get beheaded for Him. Many have told me Jesus doesn't speak to them. Jesus said His sheep hear His voice. That should be a wake up call to someone who says they never hear from God. They don't have that personal relationship we talked about earlier.
The point here is there will be "Christians" that say they're are going in the Rapture and won't make it. They confuse Rapture with Salvation. If you face the Beast and refuse the mark, your salvation is true and you will go to Heaven when you die. If you take the mark, you will buy yourself another year or two, but will die a horrible death and go to hell because whatever you did and said in the church baptismal was a lie and you just got wet. Sin is no longer the measure of your salvation, faith and belief is. If you believe, you will flee sin because the law is in your heart. We still sin, but if we repent, He is quick to forgive. Your sins have been forgiven. God measures your heart. Many have trouble comprehending they can be saved ultimately, but be left behind to face the Beast.
After the Mat 25 virgin parable, there are others about "servants". There is a difference between virgin brides and servants. The servants were given His money and one made 5 talents and another 2 and another buried his 1. The ones that made a return on His investment were told good job. The last that buried His Master's money was thrown where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. God has invested His Son's blood in you. Do you have any gain to show Him when you meet Him? I had a vision once of Isaiah 6:1 and I was before the King and people had been trowing their treasure at the feet Of Jesus and there was pile of gold and silver on the floor. It was my turn and I reached in my change pocket and threw a few pennies dimes and quarters down on the floor with Him and the angels looking on. I thought I would never stop weeping. The shame was overpowering. If you think you do enough for God, you aren't where I am now.
Many today won't even witness to their own family so as not to start an argument. If you are ashamed of Him, he will be ashamed of you before the Father. This is not a game. It's not an activity. It's a relationship. If you put the Kingdom above all, then you are probably in the right place for Him to take you to the wedding and not be left to face the Beast.
How about Matthew 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Paperback, 192 pages
Published May 11th 1970 by Zondervan (first published January 1st 1970)
We believe whatever we want to believe. Demosthenes, 348 B.C.
Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
"A penetrating look at incredible prophecies involving this generation."
Haman built his own gallows.
I also want to offer a simple and clear message of comfort. Many in the body of Christ are anxious about world events, confused about prophetic timelines, uncertain and afraid. My hope is to present a Scriptural study that the Lord will use to settle the hearts and minds of those who need it.
The Lord will use... to make people aware of the grand irony of the statement.
Simple and clear: The Messiah's appearance has been become so marred that he doesn't even resemble a man. No wonder many are desperate to be raptured out of the whole mess and are vulnerable to believing anything.
Really no different than the government undermining and destroying good order by its own policies, then coming along with... solutions.
You can expect a virulent response from many on this forum who claim to be Christians against the biblical doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture.
It is nothing short of amazing and tragic how many who call themselves "Christians" literally hate the doctrine of the blessed hope, the rapture of the church (Titus 2:13).
“This happens when Jesus descends from heaven to receive the Church in the air, but does not actually return to the earth (1 Thess. 4:16-17).”
Sorry, but those verses say the “dead in Christ” will rise first, and if you compare that to Revelation, this can only refer to the event that is called in that book “the first resurrection”, when the righteous dead are raised, which is clearly placed at the very end of the tribulation, at the same time as Christ’s second coming.