Pope Francis meets with Rev. Jens-Martin Kruse at Rome’s Evangelical Lutheran Church on Nov. 15 2016
Posted on 06/23/2017 9:12:09 AM PDT by ebb tide
Pope Francis meets with Rev. Jens-Martin Kruse at Rome’s Evangelical Lutheran Church on Nov. 15 2016
The commission consists of representatives from all three denominations, all bound to secrecy.
The journalist, who is well known in Italy for his accurate reporting of all things happening in the Vatican, has said that while this news is merely a “rumor” at this point, his “sources are usually good.”
According to his sources, the commission is finding little difficulty in finding common ground in the “liturgy of the word”. Tosatti reports: “After the confession of sins, asking for forgiveness, and reciting the Gloria, there would be the readings and the Gospel.”
He also said that the commission is allegedly studying the problem of the Creed. Protestant churches prefer to pray the Apostles’ Creed, although they do recognize the Nicene Creed. The Catholic Church alternates between them. So not even this point should be a major problem.
The presentation of the gifts likewise does not present a major obstacle to the project.
According to Tosatti, the central issue lies in the Eucharist, since the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist is profoundly different from that of the Lutherans or of other Protestant denominations. Catholics believe in Transubstantiation and the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, while Protestants believe that it is merely a memorial.
Tosatti reports that a possible “solution” being proposed is that the words of Consecration be replaced by silence:
But how can a common liturgy be celebrated that clearly differs in the wording right at the most important point of the event?
One of the proposed possible solutions would be silence. It would mean that after the Sanctus, at the moment in which normally during the Mass the priest would say the words: “Father, you are holy indeed…” the different celebrants would keep silent, everyone mentally repeating “his own” formula.
The silence is broken in the congregation with the recitation of the Our Father. It is still not clear how the lines for Communion would be formed.
In light of this well-founded rumor, we should take heed of the remarks of Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, a close collaborator of Pope Francis and currently the President of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts. The Vatican cardinal has suggested that we stop thinking of sacraments so rigidly as only either valid or invalid. For the sake of ecumenism, he opined that we should start looking into sacraments perhaps having “imperfect” or “partial” validity. Below are his exact words, as published in his exclusive interview with Edward Pentin of the National Catholic Register:
We say, everything is valid; nothing is valid. Maybe we have to reflect on this concept of validity or invalidity. The Second Vatican Council said there is a true communion [between Catholics and Protestants] even if it is not yet definitive or full. You see, they made a concept not so decisive, either all or nothing. There’s a communion that is already good, but some elements are missing. But, if you say some things are missing and that therefore there is nothing, you err. There are pieces missing, but there is already a communion, but it is not full communion. The same thing can be said, or something similar, of the validity or invalidity of ordination. I said let’s think about it. It’s a hypothesis. Maybe there is something, or maybe there’s nothing — a study, a reflection. ∎
by John Supplers, Veritas Vincit
If the sacrifice is ongoing then it is not a stretch to conclude that salvation and grace can be lost.
Actually LukeL, Jesus cannot be anyone’s Saviour if He is not their Lord. THAT is, I believe, the missing element in many Christian’s lives, be they Roman Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant.
‘Once saved, always saved’ is correct, if and only if, Jesus is a Christian’s LORD as well as Saviour. If someone merely recites a ‘sinner’s prayer’ and does not build a relationship with the Lord, they are fooling themselves.
We were created for relationship; relationship with each other AND most importantly, with God. Saying a ‘sinner’s prayer’ is merely an introduction to such a relationship.
Reading the Bible is a good start, but it is also about meditating on His Word and listening to His direction for applying it to our lives. It is also about prayer and meditation class on that prayer and listening for ‘His still small voice’. Like all relationships, it takes time and lots of effort.
The key question for a Christian to ask is, “Is Jesus REALLY Lord of my life?” Is my job more important? my career? my ‘toys’?, my family? etc. ANYTHING that takes priority over God is an IDOL and MUST be made second (or third, or fourth, etc.) to the Lord. If He is not, it is time to work on that relationship. I have work to do.
When I start claiming God has a mother...well, then you can call me a sinner.
So you don’t think Jesus Christ had a mother?
Or do you not think Jesus Christ is God?
There will remain a small Catholic remnant composed of who knows how many bishops, which will descended into the catacombs where it will be scorned as obsolete, hateful and antiquated and eventually persecuted.
I was just reading about Jesus’ teaching that if you forg8ve, you will be forgiven; nut if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. He repeated that several times; he seems quite definite on that point.
So, can salvation and grace be lost? I conclude that if you forgive, you will be forgiven. If not, not.
That’ll work. Then they can move on to a “Joint Rite With Muslims”. Service starts at 10 with 10 year-old girls being genitally mutilated. At 10.30 third and fourth wife marriages will be performed. Sermon for the day will be “Convert or lose your head, by Moe Hammid.”
At 11 a neck-slicing demonstration in the church basement. Christians who wish to volunteer are urged to register in the church office.
A can’t take a history-denying view of the Church.
We know -— because Jesus promised -— tat God’s People would be led by the Holy Spirit.
I would not want to think that 20 centuries of the Holy Spirit’s leading would result in nothing worth keeping.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
*Has passed* = past tense. It's not *will pass* as in a future date.
John 6:37-39 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
Really? Why does the Church marry Catholics and non-Catholics? It seems they are to worship God together --- at their Nuptial Mass at least, and daily, we hope, as long as they both shall live.
Way back in NT days, St. Paul recognized the marriages of Catholics and non-Catholics. I don't recall him forbidding them to pray together.
Hm? Nobody gave birth to Jesus, my Lord and my God?
Ummm, my denomination practices “closed communion” and I think (perhaps hope) many others do as well.
I’ll pass on that one.
Was Jesus confused?
Pretty sure you missed the intent there. Nothing to do with pride.
Very true. As my pastor said communion is Grace that you can see touch and taste. However lutherans do not have ritual adoration of the elements no do the believe Christ is sacrificed again at every celebration of communion Despite the confessional Lutheran belief in the real presence of Christ in His Supper we have a long way to go before sharing out altars
Haven't we already started down this road? Are not these Catholics already found in the SSPX, Resistance and Sedevacantist circles as a result of Vatican II? Our Lady of LaSalette predicted that the Catholic Church would be in eclipse.
And it is. We are already there. It's just that more and more Catholics are waking up.
In direct contradiction to the Bible which states in multiple places that Christ died once for all and took His place at the right hand of the Father.
God doesn’t have a mother. Jesus existed before Mary ever did. Jesus proclaimed he was “I AM” in John. Read it.
Yes or No:
Did Jesus Christ have a mother?
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