Posted on 05/07/2017 7:47:29 PM PDT by ebb tide
Despite the indifferentism of our days, it often happens that the same question, which someone — perhaps afflicted with the perspective of eternal condemnation — had posed long ago to the Redeemer keeps coming back: ‘Lord, will only a few people be saved?’ (Lk 13:23). And although hardly anyone might want to recognize the fact, we know that the question of eternal happiness is related to fulfilling the commandments, persevering in the state of grace, and firm adhesion to the one true Church. Today, some tend to put the question in simplified terms: contaminated by false ideas, they erroneously try to show the way to Heaven as though it were as spacious as that leading to eternal condemnation (cf. Mt 7:13). But truth will always wield on the upright of heart the same power of attraction and strength of conversion that it always has…These are the ones who discern that while the Lord’s ‘yoke is easy and His burden light’ (cf. Mt 11:30), yet ‘the kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force’ (cf. Mt 11:12).
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Table of contents Sacred Scripture Council of Trent Synod of Constantinople (543 AD) Quicumque or ‘Athanasian Creed’ Innocent III Clement VI Council of Florence Saint Augustine Saint Thomas Aquinas Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of Sacraments Gregory XVI Pius IX Pius XII Vatican Council II John Paul II Benedict XVI Catechism of the Catholic Church |
If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments. (Mt 19:17)
But although Christ died for all (2Cor 5:15), yet not all receive the benefit of His death, but those only to whom the merit of His passion is communicated. For […], unless they were born again in Christ, they never would be justified [can. 2 and 10], since in that new birth through the merit of His passion, the grace, whereby they are made just, is bestowed upon them. (Denzinger-Hünermann 1523. Council of Trent, Session VI, ch. 3, Decree on Justification, January 13, 1547)
If anyone says or holds that the punishment of the demons and of impious men is temporary, and that it will have an end at some time, that is to say, there will be a complete restoration of the demons or of impious men, let him be anathema. (Denzinger-Hünermann 411. Synod of Constantinople II confirmed by Pope Vigilius, Canons against the doctrine of Origen, from the book of Emperor Justinian, 543)
Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity. (Denzinger Hünermann 75. The Creed Quicumque, which is called ‘Athanasian’)
By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic (Church) outside which we believe that no one is saved. (Denzinger-Hünermann 792. Innocent III, Profession of Faith prescribed for Durand of Osca and his Waldensian companions, December 18, 1208)
In the second place, we ask whether you and the Armenians obedient to you believe that no man of the wayfarers outside the faith of this Church, and outside the obedience of the Pope of Rome, can finally be saved. (Denzinger-Hünermann 1051. Clement VI. From the letter Super quisbusdam to the Consolator, the Catholicon of the Armenians, September 20, 1351)
It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. (Denzinger-Hünermann 1351, Council of Florence – Bull Cantata Domino, February 4, 1442)
Knowing that, of certain rather obscure sentences of the Apostle Paul, certain unrighteous men had taken occasion so as to be careless about a good life, as though secure of the salvation which is in faith, [St. Peter] made mention that there are certain things difficult to understand in his Epistles, which men perverted, as also they did other Scriptures, unto their own destruction. When, notwithstanding that Apostle [St. Paul] held, the same as the other Apostles, concerning eternal salvation, as what was not given except to them who live a good life. (Saint Augustine. De Fide et operibus, no. 22 – English)
The third question is one very full of danger, whence, in that it hath been little considered, and not handled according to the divine sayings, it seems to me that all that opinion hath arisen, whereby promise is made unto persons living most wicked and shameful lives, even although they go on so to live and only believe in Christ and receive His Sacraments, that they shall come unto salvation and life everlasting; in opposition to the most open sentence of the Lord, Who made answer unto him that was longing for life everlasting: ‘If thou wilt come unto life, keep the Commandments’; and made mention of what Commandments, wherein those very sins are shunned, unto which is promised, I know not how, salvation everlasting, on account of faith without works. (Saint Augustine. De Fide et operibus, no. 49 – English)
In this matter we should note that contrary causes beget contrary effects. Thus action that proceeds from malice is contrary to action that proceeds from virtue. Accordingly wretchedness, in which evil action issues, is the opposite of happiness, which virtuous action merits. Furthermore, contraries pertain to the same genus. Therefore, since final happiness, which is reached by virtuous action, is a good that belongs not to this life but to the next life, as is clear from an earlier discussion, final wretchedness, also, to which vice leads, must be an evil belonging to the next world. Besides, all goods and ills of this life are found to serve some purpose. External goods, and also bodily goods, are organically connected with virtue, which is the way leading directly to beatitude, for those who use such goods well. But for those who use these goods ill, they are instruments of vice, which ends up in misery. Similarly the ills opposed to such goods, as sickness, poverty, and the like, are an occasion of progress in virtue for some but aggravate the viciousness of others, according as men react differently to such conditions. But what is ordained to something else cannot be the final end, because it is not the ultimate in reward or punishment. Therefore neither ultimate happiness nor ultimate misery consists in the goods or ills of this life. (Saint Thomas Aquinas. Compendium of Theology, ch. 173)
The suffering of eternal punishment is in no way opposed to divine justice. Even in the laws men make, punishment need not correspond to the offense in point of time. For the crime of adultery or murder, either of which may be committed in a brief span of time, human law may prescribe lifelong exile or even death, by both of which the criminal is banned forever from the society of the state. Exile, it is true, does not last forever, but this is purely accidental, owing to the fact that man’s life is not everlasting; but the intention of the judge, we may assume, is to sentence the criminal to perpetual punishment, so far as he can. In the same way it is not unjust for God to inflict eternal punishment for a sin committed in a moment of time. We should also take into consideration the fact that eternal punishment is inflicted on a sinner who does not repent of his sin, and so he continues in his sin up to his death. And since he is in sin for eternity, he is reasonably punished by God for all eternity. (Saint Thomas Aquinas. Compendium of Theology, ch. 183)
Furthermore, any sin committed against God has a certain infinity when regarded from the side of God, against whom it is committed. For, clearly, the greater the person who is offended, the more grievous is the offense. He who strikes a soldier is held more gravely accountable than if he struck a peasant; and his offense is much more serious if he strikes a prince or a king. Accordingly, since God is infinitely great, an offense committed against Him is in a certain respect infinite; and so a punishment that is in a certain respect infinite is duly attached to it. Such a punishment cannot be infinite in intensity, for nothing created can be infinite in this way. Consequently a punishment that is infinite in duration is rightly inflicted for mortal sin. Moreover, while a person is still capable of correction, temporal punishment is imposed for his emendation or cleansing. But if a sinner is incorrigible, so that his will is obstinately fixed in sin, as we said above is the case with the damned, his punishment ought never to come to an end. (Saint Thomas Aquinas. Compendium of Theology, ch. 183)
The expression ‘for many’, while remaining open to the inclusion of each human person, is reflective also of the fact that this salvation is not brought about in some mechanistic way, without one’s own willing or participation; rather, the believer is invited to accept in faith the gift that is being offered and to receive the supernatural life that is given to those who participate in this mystery, living it out in their lives as well so as to be numbered among the ‘many’ to whom the text refers. (Letter from Cardinal Francis Arinze on the translation of ‘pro multis’, October 17, 2006)
Now We consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that ‘there is one God, one faith, one baptism’ (Eph 4:5) may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that ‘those who are not with Christ are against Him,’ (Lk 11:23), and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore ‘without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate’ (Symbol. S. Athanasius). Let them hear Jerome who, while the Church was torn into three parts by schism, tells us that whenever someone tried to persuade him to join his group he always exclaimed: ‘He who is for the See of Peter is for me’ (St. Jerome, epistle 57). A schismatic flatters himself falsely if he asserts that he, too, has been washed in the waters of regeneration. Indeed Augustine would reply to such a man: ‘The branch has the same form when it has been cut off from the vine; but of what profit for it is the form, if it does not live from the root?’ (Gregory XVI. Encyclical Mirari Vos, no. 13, August 15, 1832)
In particular, ensure that the faithful are deeply and thoroughly convinced of the truth of the doctrine that the Catholic faith is necessary for attaining salvation. The Catholic laity and clergy should repeatedly offer special thanks to God in public prayers for the priceless gift of the Catholic religion. They should also beseech God to protect the profession of this faith in our country and to keep it unharmed. (Pius IX. Encyclical Noscitis et Nobiscum, December 8, 1849)
And here, beloved Sons and Venerable Brothers, We should mention again and censure a very grave error in which some Catholics are unhappily engaged, who believe that men living in error, and separated from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life. Indeed, this is certainly quite contrary to Catholic teaching. (Denzinger-Hünermann 2865-2867. Pius IX, Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863)
It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.
But, the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church is well-known; and also that those who are obstinate toward the authority and definitions of the same Church, and who persistently separate themselves from the unity of the Church, and from the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom ‘the guardianship of the vine has been entrusted by the Savior’, cannot obtain eternal salvation. (Denzinger-Hünermann 2865-2867. Pius IX, Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863)
[Condemned error:] Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which he, led by the light of reason, thinks to be the true religion. In the worship of any religion whatever, men can find the way to eternal salvation, and can attain eternal salvation.
[Condemned error:] We must have at least good hope concerning the eternal salvation of all those who in no wise are in the true Church of Christ. (Denzinger-Hünermann 2915 – 2917. Pius IX, Syllabus of errors of our age – III Indifferentism, Latitudinarianism, 15-17)
As Our Apostolic duty, we wish your Episcopal solicitude and vigilance to be aroused, so that you will strive as much as you can to drive from the mind of men that impious and equally fatal opinion, namely, that the way of eternal salvation can be found in any religion whatsoever. May you demonstrate with that skill and learning in which you excel, to the people entrusted to your care that the dogmas of the Catholic faith are in no wise opposed to divine mercy and justice. (Pius IX, Allocution Singulari Quadam, December 9, 1854)
We have committed to the protection and guidance of heaven those who do not belong to the visible Body of the Catholic Church […] ask each and every one of them to correspond to the interior movements of grace, and to seek to withdraw from that state in which they cannot be sure of their salvation. For even though by an unconscious desire and longing they have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer, they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church. (Pius XII. Encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi, June 29, 1943)
This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved. (Vatican Council II. Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, no. 14, November 21, 1964)
Since however we know not the day nor the hour, on Our Lord’s advice we must be constantly vigilant so that, having finished the course of our earthly life (cf. Heb 9:27), we may merit to enter into the marriage feast with Him and to be numbered among the blessed (Cf. Mt 25:31-46) and that we may not be ordered to go into eternal fire (Mt 25:41) like the wicked and slothful servant, (Cf. Mt 25:26) into the exterior darkness where ‘there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth’. (Mt 22:13 and 25:30) (Vatican Council II. Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, no. 48, November 21, 1964)
God is the infinitely good and merciful Father. But man, called to respond to him freely, can unfortunately choose to reject his love and forgiveness once and for all, thus separating himself for ever from joyful communion with him. It is precisely this tragic situation that Christian doctrine explains when it speaks of eternal damnation or Hell. (John Paul II. General Audience, July 28, 1999)
The problem of Hell has always disturbed great thinkers in the Church […] In point of fact, the ancient councils rejected the theory of the ‘final apocatastasis,’ according to which the world would be regenerated after destruction, and every creature would be saved; a theory which indirectly abolished hell. But the problem remains. Can God, who has loved man so much, permit the man who rejects Him to be condemned to eternal torment? And yet, the words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel He speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Mt 25:46). (John Paul II. Crossing the Threshold of Hope, pg. 96)
As the great Marxist Adorno said, only the resurrection of the body, which he claimed as unreal, would be able to create justice. We believe in this resurrection of the body in which not all will be equal. Today people have become used to thinking: what is sin? God is great, he knows us, so sin does not count; in the end God will be kind to us all. It is a beautiful hope. But both justice and true guilt exist. Those who have destroyed man and the earth cannot suddenly sit down at God’s table together with their victims. God creates justice. (Benedict XVI. Meeting with the Parish Priests and the Clergy of the Diocese of Rome, February 7, 2008)
We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: ‘He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him’ (1Jn 3:14-15). Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren (Mt 25:31- 46). To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him forever by our own free choice. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1033)
OK, Francis is wrong again. What else is new?
Revelation 17
7 The angel said to me, “Why are you amazed? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, the beast with the seven heads and the ten horns.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/17
Romans 10
8 But what does it say?
“The word is near you,
in your mouth and in your heart”
(that is, the word of faith that we preach),
9 for, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.
11 For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.
13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
http://www.usccb.org/bible/romans/10
Revelation 2
7 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To the victor I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God.”’
- - - - -
11 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The victor shall not be harmed by the second death.”’
- - - - -
17 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To the victor I shall give some of the hidden manna; I shall also give a white amulet upon which
is inscribed a new name, which no one knows except the one who receives it.”’
- - - - -
24 But I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not uphold this teaching and
know nothing of the so-called deep secrets of Satan: on you I will place no further burden,
25 except that you must hold fast to what you have until I come.
26 “’”To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations.
27 He will rule them with an iron rod. Like clay vessels will they be smashed,
28 just as I received authority from my Father. And to him I will give the morning star.
29 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
- - - - -
Revelation 3
4 However, you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments;
they will walk with me dressed in white, because they are worthy.
5 “’”The victor will thus be dressed in white, and I will never erase his name
from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my
Father and of his angels.
6 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
- - - - -
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia, write this:
“‘The holy one, the true,
who holds the key of David,
who opens and no one shall close,
who closes and no one shall open,
says this:
8 “‘“I know your works (behold, I have left an open door before you, which no one can close).
You have limited strength, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make those of the assembly of Satan who claim to be Jews and are not,
but are lying, behold I will make them come and fall prostrate at your feet,
and they will realize that I love you.
10 Because you have kept my message of endurance, I will keep you safe in the time of trial
that is going to come to the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
11 I am coming quickly. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one may take your crown.
12 “‘“The victor I will make into a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never leave it again.
On him I will inscribe the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem,
which comes down out of heaven from my God, as well as my new name.
13 “‘“Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
- - - - -
20 “’”Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and
opens the door, [then] I will enter his house and dine with him, and he with me.
21 I will give the victor the right to sit with me on my throne, as I myself
first won the victory and sit with my Father on his throne.
22 “’”Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”
- - - - -
* [2:7] Victor: referring to any Christian individual who holds fast to the faith
and does God’s will in the face of persecution. The tree of life that is in the
garden of God: this is a reference to the tree in the primeval paradise (Gn 2:9);
cf. Rev 22:2, 14, 19. The decree excluding humanity from the tree of life has
been revoked by Christ.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/2
http://www.usccb.org/bible/revelation/3
Does FR have a server up there?
Saint Gregory: “Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom.”
Saint Anselm: “There are few who are saved.”
Saint Augustine: “Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned.”
Saint Jerome: “Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence.”
We don’t need catholic leaders’ comments. The Bible is very clear that few will find the right path. Those who read and follow what the Bible teaches, instead of man’s teachings, will find the right path.
There is an evangelical pastor/writing also named Francis - Francis Chan. Reading him makes me think I’m going to hell. “You say that you are a Christian - but where is the evidence of that? Where do you spend your time and money? What do you think about all day long? Are you putting work, money, health, even your family before God!?”
I read some book where the Christian pastor/writer tried to make the case that when the new heaven and Earth are here, God will be EVERYWHERE - His Light shines without casting a shadow. The writer imagined that even the sinful will be in the presence of God, but His light will be exposing their sin every second for eternity - which would be Hell.
I don’t know. But it was an interesting - and terrifying prospect. Think of when you did something bad as a child, lied to your mom who you REALLY loved for example. Instead of mom punishing you, forging you and then getting over it - think of EVERY time you were with her she kept bringing it up. (And you need to think of your loving mother - not the ex wife!)
no where in the article is the headline mentioned.
We aren't even in the year 2915 yet. /
Jesus: For whosoever believeth in Me, shall not perish, but have life everlasting.
Jesus: 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-14.
Does this mean Rob Bell could become a Cardinal?
Jesus said in:
Matthew 7:13-14.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Jesus forgot to mention Mary, the pope, and Catholics. /s
If it looks like a cult, sounds like a cult, and acts like a cult, then it probably is a cult.
hmmm. Hell being tortured by good. Eternal death by being in God’s holy presence. I can see the truth in that. However, Satan was before God when prodding Him about how easy He was on Job and Satan wasn’t in agony. I think the source of punishment will be from within and without. Pure hate of self and others, no good inside, will be expressed forever.
hmmm. Hell being tortured by good. Eternal death by being in God’s holy presence. I can see the truth in that. However, Satan was before God when prodding Him about how easy He was on Job and Satan wasn’t in agony. I think the source of punishment will be from within and without. Pure hate of self and others, no good inside, will be expressed forever.
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Fortunately it is not my job to judge anyone except for myself.
I have respect for all who try to worship Jesus Christ, who really try to follow Him. Since the Emperor of Rome, Constantine called a council of Bishops at Nicaea in 325 AD I think the “Catholic” church has gone down hill.
There are many good things that came from Nicea from a standpoint of organization it was great. The doctrines of The Church however (I think) suffered. The problem is that it was an unbeliever, certainly an unbaptized person who made most of the decisions. This Emperor made decisions which made sense to him and it strengthened “the church” substantially.
My comments here are not meant in any way to denigrate Catholics. Many Wonderful Christians are Roman or Orthodox Catholic, they Follow Jesus Christ as their Savior to the best of their ability, I simply do not believe that anyone in the linage of Constantine has any right to the Keys Peter held in the leadership of “The Church”. That is to say that I believe the Popes are not Peter’s legal heirs.
Perhaps there are no legal heirs to the Apostleship on the earth. You can’t after a couple hundred years after the death of ALL the Apostles suddenly declare that there is now a “Head” Apostle. That is what I believe that Constantine has done, and all those after him.
This is a problem. Christ was the head of The Church while He was on the earth and He certainly designated Peter to be the earthly head after His leaving the earth, there must needs be a head, who is it? That is the 64 million dollar question isn’t it.
I’m not sure there is really any claim to that other than the Pope, we all yearn for that kind of representative on earth. Wouldn’t it be great to have a Moses or Elijah to ask questions of that we knew the answers came from God? Alas, as much as I respect Catholics and their church their Pope is not that, in my humble opinion.
So, when a pope says you must needs be Catholic to go to Heaven I just consider the source and continue on not worrying about what some self appointed prophet has to say about the matter.
Until someone comes to the earth appointed by God Himself to lead His church I will do the best I can to follow Christ by reading His words. I know I will not be perfect but I believe He will know of the desire of my heart to be so. I have hope that His Grace will be sufficient for all who come unto Him, including me.
The Emperor convened the Council, but did not take part in its deliberations or cast any vote. He did banish the Arians at its conclusion, though. What sources say otherwise?
As catholic use to means “church universal”, perhaps it really is true.
All those who believe in G-D, the Holy Sprit and Jesus are part of the “Church universal”, or small “c” catholic church.
Now I may be daft, but it seems to me all the major denominations have some major defects, and have a lot of problems agreeing on minor points of doctrine, which to the various sects are major points of doctrine. For examples:
1) Protestants critics Catholics for Maryism. Fair point, a lot of Maryists seem like idolaters.
2) A lot of protestants insist on solos scriptius....but they dropped 6 books from the cannon. Opps, Kind of hard to rationalize that, but they do by saying those book were uninspired. says who?
3) A lot of Protestants seem to have decided they can re-write what is and is not a sin, such a fudge packing now being allowed and indeed celebrated. Anglicans, Episcopalians, Lutherans have all gone apostate on that, while discovering a new commandment “thou shall be tolerant”
4) All of the churches (other than Catholic and eastern orthodox) seem to have forgotten early Paul injunctions against female headship of the church...leading to Point 3.
5) not to leave the Catholics out, they ignore the specific instruction in John to eat the body and blood of Christ. Now if you read John it seems that the blood of Christ was the part that does forgiveness of sins. In essence the Church is insisting only on the prelates forgiving sin. Wow, kind of missed the point with only the clergy drinking the blood of Christ.
6) Not to leave the Methodists out, they seem to feel the sacrament of the final supper only has meaning if the participants think it does. Wow, big re-write of the 4 gospels right there.
Not to beat up on any Christians but I think all denominations fall short in the end, and I guess most of us have some or more beliefs where we missed the mark (sin). maybe that is good. if one church or denomination were perfect, we would be worshiping that church instead of who we are supposed to.
Something to ponder.
The Emperor convened the Council, but did not take part in its deliberations or cast any vote. He did banish the Arians at its conclusion, though. What sources say otherwise?
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Constantine did convene the council but also ran it. He was the head of the council. It was him that banished those who couldn’t accept the definition of the Trinity as proposed by the Greeks but he was not secure in that doctrine and only banished the unbelievers because of the Bishop of Alexandria, his good friend begged him to. In the end shortly after the council Constantine relented and let the banished bishops back and gave them their positions back. It was not until the next council in 385 that they were banished for good and threatened with death.
While I am someone who believes that if you want to know the doctrines of a church you must ask the church. If you want to know the history of a church, it can be found outside the church. Churches have a disposition to see their history through rose colored glasses. Secular history can be biased in the opposite direction, that is why it is good to read many sources to get an answer.
I am old and have studied this for a lifetime. I will not recite my sources, suffice it to say they are very many.
While Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, Constantine was the savior of the church. The Christian church was called catholic before Constantine but it was a hodgepodge of many beliefs depending on the local bishop. It isn’t important to believe that Constantine was right but he was certainly successful in turning a bunch of ragtag bishops into an organization that had power, great power for over a thousand years.
There are many many books on the council of Nicea and many differing opinions of who did what but there is general agreement and written documentation that the council was convened by Constantine and that he guided the discussions. Many say he had no input into matters of doctrine except to settle arguments. This is what happened to the doctrine of the Trinity we have today. The Greek churches supported the Trinity as we now have it but the western and middle eastern churches did not. Constantine as Emperor was the head of other religions in the Empire and a plurality of gods suited him, I believe that when presented with the Greek version of the Trinity it made sense to him and therefore it was codified. It very nearly created a schism even before the new “Catholic” church got off the ground.
Constantine was good for the church but not every emperor after him supported the church. It took several decades before the church was really secure.
When you see the leaders of the churches agreeing with secular leaders calling evil good and good evil you can easily understand these church leaders are not called of God.
I abhor the evil we see in society today, homosexual activity and mothers without marriage are at the top of the list. In a way it is good that the evil is here, it makes it easy for us to judge the truth.
Anybody that suggests that two queers marry and have it sanctified by a church will never have my respect.
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