Proof that the Shroud Of Turin is a Fake.

Caustic Salt https://youtu.be/WzjejnFk0s4 ^ | 3/5/2017 | Caustic Salt

[Albion Wilde]

Attracting believers is not what these types are about. They want to stand on the hill and look down on everyone with scorn.

Agreed. Basement-dwelling attention-seeker posts deliberately provocative headline and attacks all comers who don't buy what he/she is selling.

[Swordmaker]

Thank you so much for this information. I have heard that the nose and knees of the image of the Shroud were shown to be scraped raw - the explanation being that the Cross that Jesus bore was a plank of wood carried on his shoulders and his arms outstretched and tied to it, so that whenever he fell he was unable to break the fall with his hands and would land on his knees or face down.

I have not heard that He was tied to the patibulum (the cross bar of the Cross) was actually tied to Jesus on the way to the crucifixion site, but consider that Jesus had been cruelly beaten, flayed with a Roman flagrum—a very vicious tool designed to inflict as much pain and damage possible, and was carrying a heavy wooden beam (the practice was not to tote the entire cross, but just the cross beam).

Many victims of such treatment alone did not survive it. In fact the Jewish Talmud rules limited such corporal punishment to 40 lashes for that reason, and traditionally those imposing corporal punishment would stop at 39 in case they had miscounted the lashes to avoid accidentally inflicting more than 40. However, if the evidence of the Shroud is to be believed, the Romans were not restrained by such limitations. The Shroud evidence indicates that the man shown on the Shroud received far more than 40 hits by the flagrum applied by two men, one taller than the other (the angles of the wounds differ), working from both sides. The wounds cover the back, sides, front, thighs, and even lower legs, and all of them are seeping blood. There are more than 125 vicious wounds breaking the skin, some of which appear to be up to a half inch deep.

Is it any wonder Jesus would have fallen on the way to His site of crucifixion. There are obvious bloody abrasions on the knees of the Man on the Shroud.

[HiTech RedNeck]

And why is it called the Shroud of Turin anyhow. Turin is only where it ended up. It’s the Shroud of Jesus! Give Him full credit for this clue to His mystery.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Jesus stood up to it all, in fact, like the proverbial Chuck Norris. “The Passion Of The Christ,” whatever its theological wanderings, imparts the general idea. He had to show SOME sign of suffering, or the entire passion episode would have looked robotic.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Also the Jewish legal mode of flogging punishment was more pro forma than focused torture. Typically the weakest member of the court was chosen to carry out the whipping. It was meant to be more humbling than degrading, the idea that this person must be whipped in public. And it was meant to stop short of a spiritually inverted sadomasochism scenario.

Stonings and other capital punishments of the Jewish law were designed to bring death quickly, so also as not to be cruel.

What happened to Jesus was at the hands of pagans, who were not under any orders to be under such compunction. But Jesus never bowed His soul to these pagans, much less worshiped them or their acts. He was bearing the anger of the Father at the sin of those He was sent to save.

[HiTech RedNeck]

There’s quite enough proud hypocrisy to go around for everybody.

But the Shroud, as any evidence proffered of God’s special work, needs to be judged at that level. At any other level we get impasses.

(The manner of creation is another such potential impasse. It was science that raised the question about whether the bible proffered a correct account of creation, and it should have been science that solved it, not necessarily on the order of our modern YECs, but on the order of the theory of relativity [and scriptural hints about the divine capacity to telescope time].)

The bible tells us to look at other things too. They should conform to biblical philosophy, but in a holistic sense. Bible prooftexting can be profoundly misleading and take us into errors such as the fallacy of the excluded middle. I had a wrangle with a dear pastor a few months ago about just such an issue. Oh the passage we are looking at says A and C, therefore the bible does not say B! Really? Check over here in the bible, where you do see B....

[lonevoice]

Thank you, as always, for providing your deep background knowledge of the Shroud of Turin.

[CyberAnt]

“Backwards” .. The Bible was not written to be read backwards. Remember, the Bible is progressive revelation; making it important to read Old Testament scriptures prior to reading scriptures in the New Testament.

I’ve searched the scriptures you stated .. in order, starting with the Old Testament record from Isaiah (which was a prophetic statement regarding how Jesus would look while hanging on the cross) .. and then following the other scriptures as they appear in the Bible.

So far, I have not found anything to support your claim of “fake”. None at all.

If you’re thinking that Jesus would have been wrapped in thin strips of cloth - making him look like a mummy - that is not how the Jewish people bury their dead (another clue - be sure you understand the customs of the people you’re investigating).

Instead, I’ve had Jewish friends explain it like this: First a cloth (soaked in herbs and spices) is laid on the platform where a casket would go. Then, the body - which has been washed and perfumed - is laid on the cloth. Then, several layers of sterile cloths are laid on top of that. And finally, the original cloth under the body is then wrapped around the body, holding the top layers in place. This would seem to show that the one sterile layer laid on Jesus after his body would have been cleaned, would be the one layer which might have collected any left-over blood or scarring of the body.

Therefore, I will still send you the scriptures I looked up, because they are from the Amplified Bible and are really clear as to their meaning.

[Bellflower]

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen.

So many people seem very proud that they do not need any evidence to strengthen their faith, even when it is obvious that our loving Father has graciously saved it for us.

[Sasparilla]

...Therefore, I will still send you the scriptures...

How he was buried doesn’t matter in the least. That’s not important. The important thing is that he arose and death has no power over him. Enough of this.

[CyberAnt]

I wasn’t arguing with you.

But your statement is strange, since the title of the thread is Proof that the “Shroud of Turin is a Fake”.

I was really replying to the person who started that thread .. if you got mixed up in the thread, I’m sorry.

But, the title of the thread is what is being discussed, not whether or not Jesus rose from the dead .. which of course HE did.

Okay ..!! If you didn’t want to discuss the Shroud of Turin, that’s your choice .. but don’t go telling me “enough” when you were not replying to the subject of the thread.

[Cronos]

Editor-surveyor "Other than as a recognition that christianity, a man made religion, is a poor facsimile of the true worship followed by Yeshua and his disciples and apostles, you do well to disregard such irrelevant ‘controversy.’"

Meaning your Jehovah's Witness concept, eh?

[Cronos]

Editor-surveyor “Christianity” was invented by the Romans, 300 years after Yeshua was resurrected. It is a poor reflection of the true worship practiced by Yeshua and his disciples and apostles, in fact it turns the true worship on its head.

Meaning your Jehovah's Witness concept, eh?

You do realize that in 311 AD, Constantine just allowed Christians to live, right? As before that, they were killed as not worshiping the Graeco-Roman gods and the Emperor.

Only in 378 AD did Theodosius make it the state religion

And Christianity in Constantine's time was already defined as "Jesus = God"

So, what do you believe in?

[Cronos]

Editor-surveyor “Christianity” was invented by the Romans, 300 years after Yeshua was resurrected. It is a poor reflection of the true worship practiced by Yeshua and his disciples and apostles, in fact it turns the true worship on its head.

So Editor, you say . His Torah absolutely must be written on our hearts.

When it is so written, we will find ourselves obeying all that is commanded of us.

If your hope is for anything else, it is written on the excrement that characterizes all that the human mind can imagine.

And, you, editor-shurveyor keep saying If christians will give up their paganism (christmas, easter, etc) and obey his commandments, he will write them on their hearts, and they too will be his people.

I find it fascinating how you refer to us as “Christians,” (followers of the crafted lies of Constantine and Eusebius) are inclined to classify all of the sons of Jacob as ‘Jews,’ and dismiss them as lost. (pot& kettle contest)

and

That’s right, its not Christianity, its the narrow path of Yeshua the Netzer. His followers are the Notzerim, not ‘christians.’

Christianity is the “other gospel” that the apostles warned us about. Its the “mystery of iniquity” that Paul warned about. Its the “wresting” with the words of Paul that Peter warned about.

[editor-surveyor]

.
Christianity didn’t exist in 311 AD.

What did exist was the keeping of the “teaching” as kept by Yeshua, his disciples, and his apostles that is described in fair detail in the Acts.

The only part of “christianity” to be found in the Acts is the name that was inserted long after the Acts was written by Luke.
.

[Albion Wilde]

Leave me out of any specifically denominational debate, please. With regard to Christ-centered belief:

1 We all believe in one true God,
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost,
Ever-present help in need,
Praised by all the heav’nly host;
All He made His love enfolds,
All creation He upholds.

2 We all believe in Jesus Christ,
Son of God and Mary’s son,
Who descended from His thrones
And for us salvation won;
By whose cross and death are we
Rescued from all misery.

3 We all confess the Holy Ghost,
Who from both in truth proceeds,
Who sustains and comforts us
In all trials, fears, and needs.
Blessed, holy Trinity,
Praise forever be to Thee!

Tobias Clausnitzer, 1619-84
Translated by Catherine Winkworth, 1827-78

[caww]

I guess some live by signs and others by faith and some in between the two.

Evidence ‘points’ to a truth whereas facts prove such. I prefer facts I suppose, and these can in some instances come about once the evidence has reached a certain plateau....who determines where that is is another story.

I also think ones years and degree of practicing faith makes a difference...where what God says is sufficient and any evidence or proof only confirms what is already accepted as truth.

[caww]

Interesting post Cronos...thank you for your words.

[ravenwolf]

1 Corinthians 11:14 Luke 22:64 Isaiah 52:14 John 19:39-40 ------------------------------------------------------------ Even if i had of believed that the shroud was any thing but a man made icon, the Bible verses you gave would convince me other wise. Sure is amazing what we can learn when we discard the nonsense we hear from mystics and just read the book.

[ravenwolf]

John19:40
40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

John 19:40
Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.

The Kjv says clothes, meaning more than one, the NIV says strips of linen.

Which indicates the one cloth maybe a fake.

1 Cor 11:14
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

The picture shows Jesus as having long hair, which is another indication that it must be a man made icon.

I believe the so called shroud of turin is man made and it was not Jesus who made it.