Posted on 02/17/2017 11:29:06 AM PST by amessenger4god
While researching the astronomical alignment next September that may be the sign John saw in Revelation 12, it occurred to me to revisit the possible dates surrounding Christ's first advent and see if there were any other "signs in the sky" around that time. I've already written extensively on possible dates for Jesus' birth (primarily based on Craig Chester and Rick Larson's research and The Bethlehem Star documentary), so I won't touch on that here, suffice to say that the argument goes Jesus was conceived on the Feast of Trumpets in 3 BC, was born in June of 2 BC, and was visited by the magi on December 25th of 2 BC. These dates require Herod to have died in 1 BC, rather 4 BC, which is a position growing in scholarly support (see here, here, and here). I've been scouring through research trying to find what are the most likely dates for the key events around the end of Jesus' first advent, so after comparing the various theories and research papers out there, here are the most persuasive dates to me:
All four Gospels state that Jesus was crucified on Preparation Day, a Friday. This is also the common consensus of the Church Fathers and scholars throughout church history.
In the fourth year, however, of Olympiad 202, an eclipse of the sun happened, greater and more excellent than any that had happened before it; at the sixth hour, day turned into dark night, so that the stars were seen in the sky, and an earthquake in Bithynia toppled many buildings of the city of Nicaea.
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
"In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know."
There is a book with this title (The Gospel in the Stars). It is a very interesting and well done book
Some of these speculations/prognostications are quite interestingly curious indeed.
I believe in applying screens of Scripture early in such cases, to avoid expending effort (and squandering honor) barking up the wrong trees. Here are a couple of examples:
(1) Are there other events that are predicted to come sooner, and are they even likely?
(2) Is something derivable from this theory that would violate a Scriptural assertion (e.g. no one knows the day or the hour at which Christ will return)?
Another observation I would wish to make is that (3) biblical events often have pre-echoes. They are anticipated by other events. This often appears to be the Lord’s way of keeping people thinking about important principles, as history plays out in its slow way. Don’t mistake the pre-echo for the prophetically featured event.
But I have my own pet prognostication which, I think, does pass the Scripture test. God can work things out in a number of ways we could never anticipate, though, so I never elevate this to dogma.
Perhaps Christ is going to return within a not completely died out generation after the re-founding of modern Israel, as diminutive as it currently is. This might put His return in the year 2028 or thereabouts (for an eighty year generation). Still no day or hour, so we aren’t speculating on something impossible. This also would be about 2000 years, more or less, after His crucifixion (especially if our Gregorian calendar idea of 1 AD is a bit late). Another scripture asserts that a thousand years is as a day. What if this, on the 1 day to 1000 year scale, were to parallel the two days Jesus was buried and on the third day rose again? (He’d rule and reign another 1000 years, completing out the third “day.”)
I honestly can’t say I know. It just hit me as a possibility, and with at least as much credibility as this book has.
Bookmark
Another important consideration, Ruru, is (4) don’t lose the gospel in all the fascinating detail.
All these signs, if valid, are ABOUT something. They will in fact be pointing to the Creator and Savior. We could prove some esoteric astronomical truth and forget it’s about the One whose gospel saves the world (or the part of the world that’s willing to be saved).
I’d also expect astronomical (or rather, astrological) signs to be targeted to an audience that cares about such things already. The Babylonians did, as did the generation of magis from whom the mission to the baby Jesus came, but they are also long dead. They played out their part.
The target could be the “Age of Aquarius” people, to name the first thing that pops to my mind. “Age of Aquarius” really strikes me — a person who used to really love digging into astrology — as a phony parallel to the benefits of Christ. Often it gets panned under the generic rubric “new age.” But God really does bring a New Age when He acts to bless willing people.
The age of Trump-i-us? The Trump of God? (To make a light hearted joke.)
a 70 year generation is this year- but back when Christ spoke those words- what was considered a generation average age? not so long ago- a generation meant just 30-40 years or so- I would ‘Assume’ that when Christ mentioned ‘generation’ He may well have meant the ‘average age of a generation’ ‘at the point when Israel becomes a nation’ which would have been around 60-70 years back then I believe’
I don’t put much stock in dates and alignments, secret hidden meanings within text, and this and that really (ala Dan Brown’s idiotic book the davinci code)- but I do say “It’s possible that it could happen in such and such a way- keep an eye out for unfolding events- if nothing happens, then so be it, if the speculations are correct, then we’ll be going home soon and that’s just fine by me”
Again- I’m not a big numbers person EXCEPT for the fact that the bible does seem to be big on the numbers 7 and 70 (Which are the numbers of perfection, of God- Man’s number being 6)- which would SEEM to indicate that we ‘could be’ very close to the rapture- One can hope anyways-
Well the bible says by reason of strength, fourscore. And this would be actually living people. It’s not unknown for this to push into the nineties given modern medicine. And if this even means the ability to procreate... well ask Mick Jagger, for instance.
We need certain other events to play out. That is one thing that I would keep on confronting people with. Don’t hit me with a prediction of something spectacular and far into Revelation when we don’t even have seeming time for what needs to precede it.
Oh, tell me about it!
I’m long since of the opinion that one reason, among many, for reliance on the Scriptures alone is that these may be mutually inspected by anyone whereas experiences CANNOT be.
I can tell someone about something in the Scriptures and they can then go to them themselves to see if I spoke accurately.
I cannot do this with experiences, like visions. If I’ve had a vision and I tell someone about it it’s like cool story, bro and nothing more.
In a way a sign fulfilled in the heavens that we can now inspect with the new technologies LINING THEM UP with Scripture are the same. They can be inspected by anyone.
But that goes away with we start speculating about signs not yet happening in the sky overhead.
It isn’t that these are useless, such certainly seem to have got the wise men on their trip, but that those who may know enough to see what’s happening right as it’s happening are not a majority and their conclusions, even if good, are not things most people are going to be aware of.
So it’s ever back to the Scriptures, to the Gospel, because signs may be interesting but they don’t really tell you why things happen the way they do or give you hope in a specific outcome long promised.
And practically... almost all Christians are going to have gone to heaven by dying. Not by rapture or meeting a returned Jesus. That’s the normal pattern. If I die before Jesus comes, I still meet Jesus, so that’s fine with me. God surely frowns on my asking (or worse, presuming) to stick around only so I can crow about having met Jesus returned on earth.
Things that adorn the gospel seem to me to be perfectly fine. The scriptures do predict that dreams and visions will happen, and there is nothing wrong with sharing them if they otherwise uphold a gospel mindset. They underline the fact that God is constantly speaking towards humankind. But they will never, ever, upend the bible.
The ornament shouldn’t upstage the thing that is ornamented.
[[Don’t hit me with a prediction of something spectacular and far into Revelation when we don’t even have seeming time for what needs to precede it.]]
The thing is that the bible states that things like babylon will be nearly instantly rebuilt (I believe Dr David Jeremiah showed that in the book of Daniel if i remember right)- and the bible indicates that when the ball gets rolling, things are going to happen very rapidly
Another very interestingness thing is- which i never realized- Saddam actually thought that he was the reincarnation of King Nebuchadnezzar- Did you know that? He actually began trying to rebuild Babylon- and He had currency made with both His likeness AND Neb’s likeness o n the front of the coin- As well, He inscribed the bricks for the rebuilding of Babylon with his name and praises to himself just like Neb did- Again Dr Jeremiah brought these facts to light- You can find the video on youtube- It was quite shocking to learn that Saddam felt he was the reincarnation of Neb-
Germany also has the Gate to Babylon’s temple or something like that- And Saddam tried desperately to buy it- The man was out of his mind- but he did begin rebuilding the city- and it’s apparently absolutely massive AND located right i nthe center of commerce in aN IDEAL LOCATION- THE VIDEO BY dAVID jEREMIAH was worth a watch- some very interestingness points were brought out- search for “Dr David Jeremiah Babylon Saddam”- that should bring it up quick
But again, while all this is interesting- I will just say- Let’s keep watch and hope it’s soon, but prepare for the fact that it may not be-
well i certainly don’t bring any of this up to crow- they are just some interesting facts and it appears historic events and prophecy are possibly at the least- beginning to play out-
Well the supernatural can always throw our estimates into disarray, but when you’re talking the physical rebuilding of a city, that has certain practical constraints. Even giving it to the Army Corps of Engineers.
I could look for spiritual senses of some things. Babylon, perhaps, is a thing that lives even more in the soul than as a physical city. And that would be more in tune with its fundamentally wicked nature. Falling for evil can happen very quickly. Just ask Nazi Germany.
Some digression and musing.
“Sincere” is a term we get from Greek.
Without wax.
A stature was good if it had nothing covered up with wax that some hot day would subsequently reveal.
The Gospel is without wax, doesn’t need wax, and indeed the proverbial cookies are on a very low shelf where folks of modest capabilities can reach for them and be saved.
I actually think this last is part of the offense of the Gospel ... that if God had wanted to save all the “great and good” as men count such all He’d have had to do was given them a Gospel that only they could understand and they’d have walked into the Kingdom in droves, all the while patting themselves on the back at how clever they were.
So in summation: I’m a bit wary of ornamentation. Even with my own experiences I hold lightly to them as a consequence. They are “nice” but still not Scripture.
I beleive it’s goign to be a physical babylon- Daniel describes it as a center of commerce I believe- a place where the4 world’s rich will flock- a place by the way that will be so wicked that demons will roam openly in the city (again- do listen to that Jeremiah video- he details a lot of stuff backed up by scripture that will take place- it’s well worth the listen, even if you dont’ agree with him on some issues-
Crowing is easy to fall into — it would get you a lot of biblical company. Paul mentioned how God permitted what apparently were demons to plague him (thorn in the side) in order that the exceeding greatness of the revelation did not, in essence, feed his pride. He knew that he could not be personal master over those demons; that He had to count on God to deal with them at the proper time and in the proper way.
We’re dirty rotten sinners who, at best, are being saved. Understanding and supporting from the heart what God wants will, in turn, bring a proper relationship to current events. That has always been so and will always be so till the curtain has rung down on this mortal coil.
Valid ornamentation tends to be humble. “Do everything to make the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ attractive.”
I’d look to any astrological ornamentation as being addressed not to erudite PhD’s but to the Joe and Jane Doe of astrological followings. The Linda Goodman crowd, as it were.
Humorous and a bit serious:
I’m pessimistic about prognostication because it says we don’t know the date.
So whatever dates men try to pick I’ve joked it’ll be none of those.
So all we gotta do is pick a day we’d never pick!
In a similar vein I know how to win the Lottery ... all I’ve got to do is pick 6 numbers that I’d never under any circumstances pick.
See? Easy! *bada*boom*kisk*
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