Is Mary not a Virgin? The German Bishops’ New Bible Translation Leaves it... Unclear

LifeSite News ^ | 9/21/16 | Jan Bentz

[marshmallow]

GERMANY, September 21, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) — The German Bishops have presented a new “Unified Translation” of the Bible that follows a significant modernization of the language and will be binding for all German-speaking areas starting in 2017.

On Tuesday, the German Bishops Conference (DBK) presented in Fulda the fruit of many years of scientific work: a new edition of the so-called “Unified Translation" (Einheitsübersetzung) of the Bible into German. It’s called “unified” because, from the original published from 1962 onward, these editions are supposed to be used ecumenically, unifying Catholics and Protestants in Germany. The original aim, however, was thwarted in 2005 when Protestants reverted to the Luther translation.

The leader of the research project was the bishop (now emeritus) of Erfurt, Joachim Wanke, who explained that the new edition is a “moderate revision” of the older text. Wanke added that a translation is always also an interpretation. The new edition shows more “braveness” to present “biblical jargon,” he said, reported by kath.net.

According to Jewish tradition, the personal names of God cannot be pronounced, so “Yahweh” is substituted by “Lord” in the new edition. In fact, every paragraph has a change, explained Michael Theobald, president of the German Bible Association.

When the apostle Paul calls two new followers, they are not two men anymore, Andronicus and Junias; rather, a new discovery showed that apparently it was one man and one woman, hence Andronicus and Junia. This led to the discussion that the word “apostle” must be applied to women as well as men (Author’s note: In German, different genders of the word exist and usually gender-ideologists insist on using male and female forms).

Other changes are more ideological.

Most frightening is the change to the iconic Isaiah passage (7:14): “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son”.....

[rwa265]

Here’s the link:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/is-mary-not-a-virgin-new-german-bible-includes-some-unorthodox-translations

[metmom]

Mary of the Bible certainly did have other children...

Psalm69:8 I have become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother's sons.

Matthew 1:24-25 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Matthew 12:46-47 While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”

Matthew 13:55 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”

Mark 6:2-3 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?”... “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”

John 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days.”

Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

1 Corinthians 9:4-5 Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

Galatians 1:19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.

Strong's Concordance

http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm

adelphos: a brother

Original Word: ἀδελφός, οῦ, ὁ

Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine

Transliteration: adelphos

Phonetic Spelling: (ad-el-fos')

Short Definition: a brother

Definition: a brother, member of the same religious community, especially a fellow-Christian.

Here is a link to the occurrences of the Greek word *adelphos*.

http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm

The word *sister* (adelphe) in the Greek is the same.

http://biblehub.com/greek/79.htm

The word used is *brother* not *cousin*.

It can't mean a member of the same religious community in the context in which they occur, because then that would mean every man in Israel could be identified as Jesus' brother. So that would not identify Jesus as anyone in particular's brother.

It's not going to mean *brother in Christ* as that concept was not yet in place and the Jews, who knew Jesus as a Jew and knew His brothers as Jews, would not even begin to understand the new birth and what being in Christ meant.

They didn't even understand who JESUS was, much less being a *brother in Christ*.

The only definition left then, is to mean physical brother.

And it would not be *cousin*.

The word for *relative* that is used for Elizabeth is *suggenes*, not *adelphe*.

http://biblehub.com/greek/4773.htm

Strong's Concordance

suggenes: akin, a relative

Original Word: συγγενής, ές

Part of Speech: Adjective

Transliteration: suggenes

Phonetic Spelling: (soong-ghen-ace')

Short Definition: akin, a relative

Definition: akin to, related; subst: fellow countryman, kinsman.

And again, the only requirement was that Mary be virgin when she bore Jesus. When that happened, prophecy was fulfilled and the matter was then irrelevant.

Joseph was then free to take Mary AS HIS WIFE as the angel told him to.

And he knew her not until AFTER she gave birth.

[metmom]

What other children were traveling with St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin when they returned to the temple to search for the Christ Chlld?

It doesn't tell us so it's not relevant.

What possible difference could it make?

[Bethaneidh]

“and this shall be a sign unto you...” It isn’t a sign of any kind if a “young woman” conceives. That happens every few seconds.

[TBP]

Jesus and his family weren’t Hebrew speakers. They spoke Aramaic.

[John Locke]

There is exactly one acceptable German bible - the one translated by Martin Luther. It is the only one the Germans need.

And by the way, Mary was a virgin: the Hebrew word "almah" was so translated in the Septuagint, by the best Jewish scholars of the age.

[chuckles]

No, there are English translations. (LOL here.)

I have the ISBN 978-0-19-528975-6

A New English Translation of the Septuagint.

29.99 at Christianbook.com

[wbarmy]

It can mean both young girl or virgin, but the Bible translates in the book of Matthew and says that verse is prophesying a virgin.

[piusv]

I’m sure Francis is totally fine with this.

[Claud]

The Greek is against your position.

Hmm...funny that the Greeks don't seem to agree with you. I guess you know Greek better than 2000 years of Greeks?

[Claud]

You do realize that *native Greek speakers* had all of this information in front of them for the last 2000 years, don’t you?

Did they believe in the ever-virginity of Our Lady, or not? Did they agree with you, or not?

[metmom]

Yes.

Maybe.

Depends if they really thought she was perpetually virgin.

And if they did, it’s irrelevant because that’s not what Scripture teaches.

Would you like the verses posted again that reference the brothers and sisters of Jesus?

I for one don’t think it’s a bad thing for a wife to have sex with her husband. It’s not a sin. it’s not impure. It’s not beneath someone.

God created sex for both procreation and unity and it was intended for mankind before Adam and Eve fell. If sex were that bad for sinless people, the human race would have stayed at two.

[af_vet_1981]

Hmm...funny that the Greeks don't seem to agree with you. I guess you know Greek better than 2000 years of Greeks?

I find this argument compelling. Modern Greek scholarship by students with a couple of courses of New Testament Greek does not equal the treasure trove of Greek language tradition from Orthodox Christians.

Another area I find suspect is the propensity of Bible colleges to offer, and professtional clergy to obtain, often by mail (and perhaps now via the Internet) PhD degrees so they can be called Doctor to reinforce their business model or credibility.

[MeneMeneTekelUpharsin]

The scripture doesn't list who was there at that time, but for a fact, it does mention that he had plural siblings in two passages from the NASB:

Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
Matthew 13:56 "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?"

Mark 6:3 "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"And they took offense at Him.

[MeneMeneTekelUpharsin]

Every language has specific words for family members with no confusion. Every language.

[MeneMeneTekelUpharsin]

Very well done. Excellent, irrefutable research.

[af_vet_1981]

and brother of James

The Case for Mary's Perpetual Virginity By: Tim Staples

Second, if we examine more closely the example of James, one of these four "brothers of the Lord" mentioned in Matthew 13:55, we discover him to be a cousin or some other relative of Jesus rather than a uterine brother. For example, Galatians 1:18-19 informs us: "Then after three years I [Paul] went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother."

Notice, the "James" of whom Paul was speaking was both a "brother of the Lord" and an "apostle." There are two apostles named James among the 12. The first James is revealed to be a "son of Zebedee." He most likely would not be the "James" referred to because according to Acts 12:1-2 he was martyred very early on. Even if it was him, his father was named Zebedee, not Joseph.

Paul more likely is referring to the second James who was an apostle, according to Luke 6:15-16. This James is revealed to have a father named Alphaeus, not Joseph. Thus, James the apostle and Jesus were not uterine brothers. Easy enough. Some will argue, however, that this "James" was not an apostle or that he was not one of the original 12. Though this is a possibility—others in the New Testament, such as Barnabas in Acts 14, are referred to as "apostles" in a looser sense—the argument from Scripture is weak. When Paul wrote about going "up to Jerusalem" to see Peter, he was writing about an event that occurred many years earlier, shortly after he had converted. He was basically going up to the apostles to receive approval lest he "should be running or had run in vain." It would be more likely he would have here been speaking about "apostles" (proper), or "the twelve."

But for those inclined to argue the point, the Catechism of the Catholic Church uses another line of reasoning:

The Church has always understood these passages as not referring to other children of the Virgin Mary. In fact James and Joseph, "brothers of Jesus," are the sons of another Mary, a disciple of Christ, whom St. Matthew significantly calls "the other Mary." They are close relations of Jesus, according to an Old Testament expression. (CCC 500)

The Catechism here refers to the fact that 14 chapters after we find the "brothers" of the Lord listed as "James, Joseph, Simon and Judas," we find "James and Joseph" mentioned again, but this time their mother is revealed as being named Mary, but not Mary, the Mother of Jesus. We can conclude that "James and Joseph" are "brothers" of Jesus, but they are not uterine brothers.

But what about Matthew 1:24-25, and the claim Jesus was Mary’s "firstborn son" and that Joseph "knew her not until" Christ was born? Does Matthew here teach that Mary had other children?

Exodus 13:1-2 reveals something very important about the firstborn in Israel: "The Lord said to Moses, ‘Consecrate to me all the firstborn; whatever is the first to open the womb among the people of Israel, both of man and beast, is mine.’"

The "firstborn" were not given the title because there was a "second-born." They were called "firstborn" at birth. Jesus being "firstborn" does not require that more siblings be born after him.

Until Then

Scripture’s statement that Joseph "knew [Mary] not until she brought forth her firstborn" would not necessarily mean they did "know" each other after she brought forth Jesus. Until is often used in Scripture as part of an idiomatic expression similar to our own usage in English. I may say to you, "Until we meet again, God bless you." Does that necessarily mean after we meet again, God curse you? By no means. A phrase like this is used to emphasize what is being described before the until is fulfilled. It is not intended to say anything about the future beyond that point. Here are some biblical examples:

2 Samuel 6:23: And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to (until) the day of her death. (Does this mean she had children after she died?) 1 Timothy 4:13: Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. (Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?) 1 Corinthians 15:25: For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? By no means! Luke 1:33 says, "he will reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.") In recent years, some have argued that because Matthew 1:25 uses the Greek words heos hou for "until" whereas the texts I mentioned above from the New Testament use heos alone, there is a difference in meaning. The argument goes that Heos hou indicates the action of the first clause does not continue. Thus, Mary and Joseph "not having come together" would have ended after Jesus was born.

The problems with this theory begin with the fact that no available scholarship concurs with it. In fact, the evidence proves the contrary. Heos hou and heos are used interchangeably and have the same meaning. Acts 25:21 should suffice to clear up the matter: "But when Paul had appealed to be kept in custody for the decision of the emperor, I commanded him to be held until (Gk. heos hou) I could send him to Caesar."

Does this text mean that Paul would not be held in custody after he was "sent" to Caesar? Not according to the biblical record. He would be held in custody while in transit (see Acts 27:1) and after he arrived in Rome for a time (see Acts 29:16). The action of the main clause did not cease with heos hou.

[trebb]

What does Matthew 13:55 say about it?

[ealgeone]

You’re leaning on Tim staples??? He has some of the weakest apologetics I’ve ever read.

[Popman]

What other children were traveling with St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin when they returned to the temple to search for the Christ Child?

You actually think that is relevant...?

It is an omission of content, not proof of anything...

So when Scripture tells us Jesus did something and doesn't mention that the twelve apostles were there with him, they weren't actually there ?

Seriously?