Posted on 06/10/2016 7:06:28 AM PDT by Salvation
I sometimes get questions about the remarkably long lives of the patriarchs who lived before the great flood. Consider some of their reported ages when they died:
How should we understand these references? There are many theories that have tried to explain the claimed longevity. Some propose a mathematical corrective, but this leads to other inconsistencies such as certain patriarchs apparently begetting children while still children themselves. Another theory is that the ages of the patriarchs are actually just indications of their influence or family line, but then things don’t add up chronologically when considering eras and family trees.
Personally, I think we need to take the stated ages of the patriarchs at face value and just accept it as a mystery: for some reason the ancient patriarchs lived far longer we do today. I cannot prove that the patriarchs actually lived that long, but neither is there strong evidence that they did not. Frankly, I have little stake in insisting that they did in fact live that long. I think it is best just to accept that they did.
Many scoff when I articulate this solution. They almost seem to be offended. The reply usually sounds something like this: “That’s crazy. There’s no way they lived that long. The texts must be wrong.” To which I generally reply, “Why do you think it’s crazy or impossible?” The answers usually range from the glib to the more serious, but here are some common ones:
So I think we’re back to where we started: just accepting the long life spans of the early patriarchs at face value.
There is perhaps a theological truth hidden in the shrinking lifespans over the course of time in the Old Testament. Scripture links sin and death. The day they ate of the forbidden fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam and Eve were warned that they would die (Gen 2:17). Yet they did not drop dead immediately. And although they died spiritually in an instant, the clock of death for their bodies wound down much later. As can be seen in the list of lifespans of the patriarchs (see above), as sin increased, lifespans dropped precipitously, especially after the flood.
Prior to the flood, lifespans remained in the vicinity of 900 years. Immediately afterward, they dropped by about a third (Noah and Shem only lived to be 600), and from there the numbers plummeted even further. Neither Abraham nor Moses even reached the age of 200, and by the time of King David, he would write, Our years are seventy, or eighty for those who are strong (Ps 90:10).
Scripture says, For the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Indeed they are, especially in terms of lifespan. Perhaps that’s why I’m not too anxious to try to disprove the long lifespans of the patriarchs. What we know theologically is borne out in our human experience: sin is life-destroying. And this truth is surely writ large in the declining lifespan of the human family.
Does this prove that Adam actually lived to be more than 900 years old? No. It only shows that declining lifespans are something we fittingly discover in a world of sin. Since God teaches that sin brings death, why should we be shocked that our lifespan has decreased from 900 to 85 years? It is what it is. It’s a sad truth that God warned us about. Thanks be to God our Father, who in Jesus now offers us eternal life if we will have faith and obey His Son!
How or even whether the patriarchs lived to be more than 900 years old is not clear. But what is theologically clear is that we don’t live that long today because of the collective effect of sin upon us.
Not necessary, true.
Yet Jesus Christ did have His life, teachings, words and deeds historically documented just the same through the prophets, the Apostles, Disciples, and many other eyewitnesses.
Btw -- can you point to a single Biblical prophecy that has been proven wrong?
The prophesied re-establishment of Israel, that is a historic reality(1948) just as the scriptures foretold.....if that was true then it behooves us to think that at least some of the other parts of the Bible have validity and that we should pay attention to it...don’t ya think?
You need to read this article.
So you're saying you need Geraldo and CNN video and a notarized court affidavit to document the past -- otherwise it didn't happen?
Got it.
The human lifespan was shortened when the firmament protecting the earth from solar and deep space radiation was removed during the flood. After that God stated the maximum lifespan of man would be 120 years. Most of us don’t even make it that long.
Chrstianity is a false religion unauthorized by the Torah.
Btw -- can you point to a single Biblical prophecy that has been proven wrong?
Many prophecies are conditional, such as the prophecy of Jonah. Jonas said Nineveh would be overthrown. He didn't say "unless you repent;" he simply said it was going to be overthrown in a matter of days. Yet when the king ordered national repentance G-d relented.
The "fulfilled prophecies" of the "new testament" are only "fulfilled prophecies" if you begin with an a priori assumption that the "new testament" is true. You are saying "J*sus fulfilled such and such a prophecy because the 'new testament' says he did." You are "proving" chrstianity by assming its truth from the outset. This is a logical fallacy known as "affirmation of the consequent."
All I know, ZC, is that faith is a gift. Mysteries exist, and I am glad the Church does not presume to know all that holy mysteries contain.
For me to know every jot and tittle of many holy things spoken of in sacred scripture would tend to place these holy things into my human understanding and finite human mind where they do not belong. *Yet*.
Could we agree that God gives us each a measure of knowledge, Wisdom and understanding that is perfect for us at any given moment, and in His perfect timing He lovingly and generously adds to it, as we step out to seek Him?
I have come to separate the faithlessness that struck the Western Catholic churches, and then manifested in the 60’s, from the universal holy Church. Because that is my humble opinion, it makes me wonder if you were a victim of that faithlessness, when you described your personal anecdote, your experience with a seminarian, who probably didn’t pass his exams. lol.
The Church in the USA has been in trouble for a long time coming. We have possibly more wolves than Shepherds serving as priests. That condition is grave but it is a separate suffering from the true Church in Heaven and the Mystical Body of Christ on earth.
After all, there shall be but a Remnant left upon our Lord’s return. Right?
Good point.
That genetic contamination might well have also been aided by susceptibility to radiation (water vapor canopy or some other mechanism pre-Flood screening out its DNA-crushing destruction), higher air pressure, and God lifting His protective hand from biological contaminants.
Uh, ok. Buh-bye.
I don’t drink my tap water, but instead drink a bottled water than contains more oxygen.
It’s amazing.
And those eyewitnesses are documented where? Also the prophecies? Historically there is evidence supporting the life of Jesus and most of the people in the New Testament - but does that prove the divinity of Jesus?
Proof has an extraordinarily high level to achieve. If you cannot achieve it, then there is a level of faith required. That's the point - religion cannot be proven, but it does not need to be proven because it is FAITH.
Your argument that neither the historical account of Judeo-Christian Bible or Hindu Vedas can be validated or discredited depends on which "truth" and eternity you seek.
That's the thing about faith - you have to choose which truth you want to believe in. And which eternity you want to seek (which in itself is a concept that has yet to be empirically proven).
No, I am saying that having that kind of documentation eliminates the need for faith. If you do not have that kind of documentation - then there is an element of faith, of belief, of trust without facts - that is inherently required.
And at that point - it becomes a matter that cannot be denied - but cannot be proven.
Nostradamus also nailed multiple prophecies. Does that mean all of the rest are also 100% correct and he was divine?
Faith requires - demands - belief in the absence of facts. If you require facts to prove your faith then you will end up with neither.
PS: there is more empirical, 3rd party (meaning - outside of the Bible) proof that Jesus existed than that of Abraham's existence. Just sayin'... ;)
Lol. So true. Too funny.
” a seminarian told me he couldn’t prove a man named Noah ever existed, but neither could he prove he didn’t.”
But the seminarian is correct. I believe Noah existed. I can’t prove he existed. Scripture speaks of him. That’s enough for me. That is not proof for others who lack faith. A little over a century ago people many times did not believe the Hittites existed millennia ago. Once archaeological evidence of the Hittites was found that ended any doubts. That has not happened - in a definitive sense - in archaeology with Noah and probably won’t. God apparently doesn’t want it that easy for us. We have to trust Him and His Word - especially His Word made flesh.
I assume you’re aware of the cross-breeding between the female population and the angelic beings.
Does it? How many people die of illnesses related to the quality of their DNA?
I see what you did there LOL
Where in the Bible does that exist?
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