Posted on 08/17/2015 6:07:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
It is that time of week again, where we talk about the Mary, the Mother of God. This is definitely the single most important title that Mary has. If someone gets this wrong, then they get the Divinity of our Lord wrong, and that means the whole plan of Salvation is just messed up. So let us look at this most important title.
Theotokos, God-bearer in Greek, is what the council of Ephesus declared in 431. It specifically says this “If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the Word of God become flesh by birth), let him be anathema.” Now just that statement alone proves the early Church believed that there was Authority given to the bishops to decide sound doctrine, Mary was a Holy Virgin her entire life, and that She bore God. However, we only have time for one today.
Now many times we will hear non-Catholics tell us that this title is nowhere found in Scripture, explicitly at least. However, they cannot themselves find a Scripture verse that says that all doctrine and dogma must be explicitly proven in Scripture. I bet they can never find that. This is a trap they set up for themselves and it is a very unfair double standard that they expect us to meet, but they do not have to. However, on top of this double standard is if we used that same standard, then the doctrine of the Trinity is thrown out, since it’s not an explicit teaching, but instead is implicit in Scripture. This double standard seems to cause more problems that it’s worth wouldn’t you say?
Here is the cold hard truth of it though, all Christians rely on some Church Tradition, as well as Scripture, to validate their doctrines, whether they admit it or not. With that being said, Scripture and Tradition can never contradict one another. The Traditions of men can contradict the Word of God, but the Traditions God left us, through Christ, in the Holy Spirit, are binding upon us, as we are to hold fast to Traditions. So then, what is the real question? The real question is, Does Scripture contradict the teaching that Mary is the Mother of God, and is that doctrine found in Scripture at least implicitly?
Let us begin with Luke 1:43, where Mary visited Elizabeth. There Elizabeth exclaimed “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Because Mary was the Mother of the Lord, who is the Second part of the Holy Trinity, Mary is truly and rightfully called the Mother of God.
We also see in Isaiah 7:14 “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which is interpreted God with us.” Jesus is God. He was God when He was in the womb, conceived, lived, died, buried, resurrected, in the Eucharist, and in Heaven. The Messiah, who is God, was to be born of a virgin, according to Scripture. God was born of a virgin, and it’s right there in Isaiah, who prophesied of Christ birth. That means both Old and New Testament support the Catholic Doctrine of the Mother of God.
However, this may not be enough for some non-Catholics. Some say that Elisabeth called Christ Lord, and not God, saying that Mary was only to give birth to the human child, the Lord Jesus Christ. So then the question becomes, does lord here mean divinity or just authority? Let’s look at the context.
First let us look at 1 Cor. 8:5, which states “Indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” St. Paul makes it clear that Jesus is the one True, Lord, as opposed to all the false ones, that the pagans who converted in Corinth were probably worshiping. So then, they would understand that Jesus is God. This holds true to the Jews who converted too, who would know Deut. 6:4 “Hear, therefore, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”
So then that brings us back to Luke 1:43. Elizabeth calls Mary the mother of her Lord. The Mother…Mothers give birth to persons, not natures, let us remember that. Mary did not just give birth to the human nature of Christ, she gave birth to the person of Christ. Christ personhood is Divine, it is God the Son.
Then let us look at 2 Sam. 6:9 where the King, who was David says “How can the ark of the Lord come to me (being the ark of the covenant)” Then in 2 Samuel 616 we see King David leaping in the presence of the Ark, just as John the Baptist did. Then we yet again see another parallel, which says that the ark of the Lord abode in the house of Obededom the Gethite for three months (2 Sam. 6:11), and according to Luke 1:56 Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth about three months. Then, we see that the ark of the covenant carried three items, manna, the Ten Commandments, and Aaron’s rod. These are all types of things Christ are, the Bread of Life, Word made Flesh, and our true High Priest.
Even knowing all this though, there are still those who would deny that Mary is the Mother of God. So then we have to ask, who is Jesus Christ to them? If Mary is not the Mother of God, then who did she give birth to? Many would say it was an earthly human lord, not God. So then, what does that make Christ? If Mary did not give birth to God, then who did she give birth to? Was not Christ God when He was conceived?
If someone says Mary only gave birth to the person of Christ one of two errors, or both could happen, and that is the Denial of the divinity of Christ, and that one would have to say Christ is two distinct persons, and that he is not One. Both were considered heresy in the Early Church. Christ is one Person, with two natures, Divine and Human, which go together and are not separate of one another. If one denies that, the ultimately they are speaking about a different Christ, and St. Paul warns us about that problem, and to not to give heed to them (2 Cor. 11:4).
So then, some say that Mary is the mother of the Trinity if we take it that far, however, this is not true. Mary gave birth to the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2nd Person, who is still God just not the Trinity. However, we must never forget that each Person in the Trinity shares the same Divine Nature and is fully God.
One thing some still point out is that Christ is eternal, so for Mary to be the Mother of God she would have to be God. However the Church does not say Mary is the source of the Divine Nature of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. To better understand this let’s look at humanity. Parents give birth to a person, however they are not the author of life, and certainly did not give the child it’s soul. Thus is true with Mary, she did not give Christ His Divine Nature, though she was the Mother of more than just the human form of Christ, because she gave birth to a person, who was God.
So a holiday name is equal to a queen of heaven title for one person? Wowzers.
Yeah, anyone who disagrees must be catholic bashing.
Excellent point.
How does your quote you cite prove she had no original sin and commtted zero sins her entire life?
I read it and there’s nothing in there that confirms either claim.
I wouldn’t waste your time, some people are so caught up in their lies, they will refuse to believe the truth.
The thread is about the Mother of God, not about the Immaculate Conception. That can be answered on another thread.
Tell it to the person who brought it up.
I’m agreed it’s a cult, and you give good advice. My only question is how are you so certain about a rapture before next year September?
Hmmmmm! More Protestant bashing!
To those wwondering. This is fine since motherhood does not entail origin or of existence, but it does imply a specific kind of relationship.
No parent creates the soul of their child. The soul comes from God, therefore motherhood does not mean Mary is the author of God.
“I guess many people are still Catholic Bashing.”
Salvation, I don’t see any point in posting this thread outside of a Caucus. Do you? Really? How else was this thread going to turn out?
The article itself—very poorly written IMO—bashes Protestants. I could care less about that if a fierce defense was accepted but here you are talking about Catholics being bashed. What exactly DO you expect from non-Catholics on open threads such as this?
Luke 1
43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
A mother is not by definition "higher" than the offspring.
You mention "Roman Catholics" in your comments repeatedly, as if "Roman Catholics" decided on their own -- in defiance of all other Christian groups -- to come up with the doctrine that Mary gave birth to God.
If you study history and basic Christian theology, you'd realize the reverse is true.
Scripture makes it explicitly clear that Christ is both God AND Man, had always existed that way, and thus Christ was fully God when Mary gave birth to him.
So-called Christians who REJECTED the idea that Mary gave birth to God, and argued that Mary only birth to "Jesus, the human person", were condemned as heretics by ALL Christians WORLDWIDE, many centuries ago. The idea that the human and divine natures of Christ are extremely separate and that Mary "only" carried the human nature is her womb is a grave heresy in mainstream Christianity.
Catholic theologians, Eastern Orthodox scholars, Oriental Orthodox church fathers, the various Protestant reformers (Luther, Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, John Weasley, etc.) have ALL affirmed over the centuries that Mary carried God incarnate in her womb and gave birth to God incarnate. Even the modern day successor to the Nestorian Church, which started this heresy in the first place, has now accepted that Mary gave birth to God incarnate.
If you deny this basic Christian dogma, you are placing yourself outside of centuries of mainstream orthodox Christian teaching and outside of the dogma of the vast majority of self-proclaimed Christian churches today. Nestorianism is a fringe belief that died off in the 1400s. Only self-proclaimed "Christians" like Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarians will deny that Jesus was fully God long before Mary gave birth to Him. I don't think you want to end up in their company.
Now we do not have three gods but One God and in Jesus we have a part of the Godhead who is both fully God and fully man.
Just as your mother did not create you, but God created you and your mother bore you, in a similar way God was not created by Mary, but she bore her creator. He created her and she was used as His bearer
Your mother is not "elevated" higher than you, neither was Mary
Mary bore Jesus Christ, God — divine and human intertwined. She did not conceive Him, but she bore Him. the one who bore God in her womb is the mother of God, the bearer of God, not the creator, but a creature who bore her creator
The title "Mother of God" doesn't state that "she created God". It merely affirms that she bore God. Otherwise, every stepmom and surrogate mother on this planet could claim they "created" their child.
Angelina Jolie is the mother of Maddox Chivan. However, she certainly didn't create Maddox Chivan. In fact, it would be impossible, since he's Cambodian and she's not
You know better than the Angel Gabriel?
At the wedding feast at Cana, Mary tells Jesus, “They have no wine.” He tells her it is not time yet for him to reveal his divinity by performing a miracle. Mary knows that he is going to do it, anyway, because she has asked him, so she tells the stewards, “Do whatever he tells you.” And Jesus responds to her request.
The gospel does not tell us about this incident just to make chit-chat. The gospels were written to tell about the realities of the spiritual economy.
We who are in need (the couple who are out of wine) go to Mary to make our needs known to her. Mary intercedes with her Son, and he responds to her requests.
Mary’s function as an intercessor for us with Jesus is taught to us in the gospel account of the wedding feast at Cana.
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