Posted on 06/11/2015 8:19:28 AM PDT by RnMomof7
“1. As I said, young men kneel to women whose hand they are asking for in marriage... Bowing was a part of our culture not so long ago that it should seem completely unreasonable or foreign to someone as a sign of respect.”
I suppose then, if you are asking Mary to marry you, you have issues. It remains idolization.
“2. Even Protestants ask others to pray for them, and that is what we do with Mary. To us, she is the ultimate prayer warrior, so of course we want to ask her to pray for us!”
Yes, the prayer warrior part is made up. But you do not even know if dear Mary can hear a prayer from earth. Scripture neither commands nor teaches us to pray to the departed. Again, made up.
“3. & 4. Can you show me where the Church teaches these things?”
I didn’t say the Church teaches those things. I said Catholics do them.
“5. I assume you are talking about things like her Immaculate Conception. Does it not make sense to you that God would want a perfect “tabernacle” for His Son? Do you think God cannot do that?”
Again, made up.
Once you reach a point where your justification for a doctrine is “God can do anything”, you got nothing.
I agree after going back and reading the text of the Newman site.
Thank you for acknowledging that the quote was not from Newman. It was driving me crazy trying to find where he wrote it.
I said: “Among Protestants there is a wide variation in how one becomes a Christian—how does each person decide which is correct? What happens to those who pick the wrong opinion to agree with?”
Metmom responded: “Like what? Catholics keep making comments about the widely divergent views on topics that Prots are supposed to have but never come through with concrete examples.
“Would you care to be the first?
“So what is that wide variation?”
First, like what I mentioned: Protestants have a wide variety of ideas regarding what is necessary to be saved, from saying a little prayer and one is saved for life to the necessity of sacramental baptism. Obviously, how one takes the first step towards Heaven is **vitally important,** no?
Specific differences among Protestants regardinf baptism:
Baptism: 1. sacramental (imparts faith); 2. sacramental (offers the recipient to God; 3. symbolic of being born again; 4. symbolic sign of obedience to God;
5. full immersion necessary; 6. water poured over head;
7. infants can and should be baptized; 8. infants should jot be baptized;
9. baptism is necessary for salvation; 10. baptism is not necessary for salvation.
Now I hope you will answer the questions I asked which were quoted at the beginning of this post.
That misrepresentation of *Protestant* theology has been disproved time and again on these threads and is STILL trotted out as if anyone actually says that and believes it.
Please, stop using is. It only costs you credibility to accuse Christians of something they don't believe in and have clearly stated so.
Do you have another term to describe someone who eats human flesh?
In addition to Scripture and Tradition, we also have the teaching authority, the first instance of which we saw when Simon declared Jesus the Messiah, and Christ explained that this was not knowledge from men but from Heaven. The teachings about Mary which were declared later were declared on the basis of what was taught in these verses, but the teachings themselves flow from what Christ revealed to us and were considered from verg early on in the Catholic Church’s history, except for the Assumption of Mary, which probably has also as its basis the fact, now somewhat lost to history, that Mary’s body disappeared/seems to be no longer on earth.
Elijah was carried to Heaven in a whirlwind preceeded by a fiery chariot; would Christ do less for His mother?
Those are not *wide variations* on how to be saved.
You presented two options.
One is by faith.
One is by baptism (works).
How the baptism is done is inconsequential.
You either trust Christ or you trust something else.
What the something else is doesn’t matter because NOTHING else can save. You’re just as lost trusting one religious activity as another.
That was really the least of my concerns considering the differences in our beliecs. Heretics, dead minds, and other things you said in that post went far beyond what I was called out for.
I don’t mind my having had the rules explained to me when I broke them; I just don’t think it is right for you to write like that, which seems worse.
No, but such are considered so binding to many RCs that objecting to such as unScriptural results in being charged with hating Mary.
Those are huge differences! If baptism is required for salvation and someone relies on the sinner’s prayer, or the people who advocate full mmersion are correct and others have only water poured over their heads, or those who say infant baptism does not suffice and one has only been baptized as an infant, then what happens to those who went the wrong way?
The reason I added that part about Protestants’ being closer to the Catholic view than they realize is that I know the general Protestant view is *not* “I’m saved so now I can do what I want.” I apologize for having been so unclear.
You mean someone cited me for a post on this thread? I must have missed it.
You continue to conflate Justification and Sanctification. Is it because of a lack of education?
pingalingaling
I don’t know what you are referring to, so it’s hard for me to say what it’s cause is.
Justification and Sanctification are not the same thing. By faith we are justified before the Throne of God. By faith in Jesus we WILL enter into Heaven, not by any works. Sanctification is the process of 'faithing' in God indwelling us to 'raise us up in the way that we should go'. Jesus told Nicodemus he must be born from above. As a newborn God's Holy Spirit earnest of our inheritance works in you to build wood, hay, or stubble? Or is He working to build Gold, silver, and precious stones, so the Justified believer/faither has something surviving at the Bema seat IN HEAVEN?
Does that help you any at all, or are you still clueless?
Thank you for your explanation. We think about things a little differently in the Catholic Church, but I see that what you explained about sanctification is similar to what we call growing in holiness.
I had always heard phrases like becoming saved, which seemed to mean being in a state wherein one would go to Heaven if one died that night. I guess that is analogous to what you are calling justification?
Thanks again for explaining the difference. I am still not sure how that relates to what I was saying, tho. I’ll have to go back and see if I used either of those words...
Pax vobiscum
Yes, Salvation accused you of mindreading over Post #96
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3299206/posts?page=96#96
Her complaint was removed.
I think your post 96 overloaded the thread with Truth from the Bible (for certain factions here) and it was a feeble attempt to get you...and Biblical Truth...censored.
Thank you pinging me since you seem to be interested.
I will pray for all of you.
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