Pope, Orthodox Patriarch Look to New Council at Nicea

Catholic Culture ^ | 5/30/14

[marshmallow]

Pope Francis and Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople have agreed to plan for an ecumenical council to be held in Nicea in 2025, the AsiaNews service reports.

Patriarch Bartholomew revealed that he and the Roman Pontiff had “agreed to leave as a legacy to ourselves and our successors a gathering in Nicaea in 2025, to celebrate together, after 17 centuries, the first truly ecumenical synod, where the Creed was first promulgated.” The Council of Nicea, held in 325, brought together over 300 bishops and approved the formula of faith now known as the Nicene Creed.

[dangus]

When they say “ecumenical council” do they mean “Ecumenical Council” or do they just mean “a council with a bunch of ecumenist?”

Because the news of the former would be earth-shattering.

[Claud]

Wondering that as well.

And can there be a true ecumenical council with two sides in schism? Is this laying groundwork for healing the breach?

[Dr. Sivana]

If they are going to have a council, MUCH better to have it at Nicea than to have a "Vatican III", which would sound like the continuation of Vatican II, a Council that in many ways seemed dated as soon as Peter, Paul and Mary stopped hitting the Top 40.

Why is it that all of the cool places to have a Council are now in a Muslim country?

[Claud]

I’m reading the Patriarch’s words and I’m not seeing anything about “council”. “Gathering” is what he said...it’s a “celebration”.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Bartholomew-:-With-Francis,-we-invite-all-Christians-to-celebrate-the-first-synod-of-Nicaea-in-2025-31213.html

Catholic Culture is being overoptimistic I think. But hey...prayers that it actually happens anyway! :)

[Tao Yin]

And can there be a true ecumenical council with two sides in schism? Is this laying groundwork for healing the breach?

Really interesting. As a protestant and someone who professes the Nicene Creed as a representation of the true catholic faith, I'm curious what a new creed would look like that represents the true catholic faith as understood by the Roman Catholic Church.

[Alex Murphy]

Patriarch Bartholomew revealed that he and the Roman Pontiff had “agreed to leave as a legacy to ourselves and our successors a gathering in Nicaea in 2025, to celebrate together, after 17 centuries, the first truly ecumenical synod, where the Creed was first promulgated.” The Council of Nicea, held in 325, brought together over 300 bishops and approved the formula of faith now known as the Nicene Creed.

A leading official of the Russian Orthodox Church said that Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I represented only his own Patriarchate of Constantinople, and not the world’s other Orthodox churches, in his meeting with Pope Francis, according to a report from the Religious Information Service of Ukraine.

Metropolitan Hilarion, the chairman of the Russian Orthodox Church’s Department of External Church Relations, said that the Ecumenical Patriarch had not consulted with the leaders of other Orthodox churches before meeting with the Pope, according to the report. The Ecumenical Patriarch holds a primacy of honor among the Orthodox churches, the largest of which is the Russian Orthodox Church.
-- from the related thread Russian Orthodox Church distances itself from Ecumenical Patriarch’s meeting with Pope

[sitetest]

Dear Claud,

I don't know. This is the second paragraph of the article:

“Speaking exclusively with AsiaNews, Bartholomew says that together with Pope Francis we agreed to leave as a legacy to ourselves and our successors a gathering in Nicaea in 2025, to celebrate together, after 17 centuries , the first truly ecumenical synod, where the Creed was first promulgated’.”

“Ecumenical synod” sounds more like “ecumenical council” than “celebration.

sitetest

[DManA]

If the Orthodox admit they were wrong I’m sure the Romans will happily let them back into the fold.

[Claud]

I think part of the problem is in this phrase, which is confusing in English:

“to celebrate together, after 17 centuries, the first truly ecumenical synod”.

Superficially it sounds like we are holding our first ecumenical synod after 17 centuries. Don’t think that’s what the Patriarch meant though, just that we are *celebrating 325 together* for the first time in 2025.

[Claud]

Yes, but the “synod” mentioned there must refer to 325 not 2025, no? “Where the Creed was first promulgated”?

Admittedly, the phrase can bear both readings.

This would indeed be earth-shattering to both sides...I just have trouble believing that a new Ecumenical Council would be announced so casually.

[Claud]

You can probably let your curiosity rest on that. Given all the trouble we had 1200 years ago when the single word “filioque” was added to the Creed in Latin, I seriously doubt any new Creed will ever be entertained. I saw a “Native American Creed” once and it was a theological atrocity. *shudder*

There are of course other legit creeds that we use from time to time: the Apostles Creed and the Athanasian Creed. I guess theoretically we could have more, but the Nicene Creed is what it is and won’t change.

Interestingly, when the Pope says the Nicene Creed in Greek, he does not say the filioque.

[sitetest]

Dear Claud,

I came to a similar conclusion after several readings.

sitetest

[aMorePerfectUnion]

From the Vatican website...

Official Notice from the Office of Vatican Translation

We are experiencing some difficulties with the updated version of Google Translate that we use for all official announcements from the Vatican.

Obviously, there will be misunderstandings when the Pure Language of Rome is translated into the confusing and imprecise language of English.

Were not sales of indulgences down again this year, perhaps we could use human translators for these announcements. Unfortunately, is not possible. The misinformation from the poorly named "Reformation" continues to erode our sales of these valuable "get out of jail free" cards for your loved ones.

For this reason, we beg your patience. Be assured that after every important announcement, we will work with the Google Translate employees to refine our message until it causes less ambiguity and concern.

Thank you very much for your patience and understanding. Please do buy indulgences for your departed loved ones, who are suffering.

[Rich21IE]

I seriously doubt they would attempt to tinker with the current Nicene Creed.

[Doug Loss]

You know, we Orthodox feel exactly the same way toward the Romans. If you just admit your incorrectnesses and reform we’ll be happy to bring you into communion with the rest of Christianity.

[CTrent1564]

DManA:

We really need to step back from the polemics with the Orthodox, in my opinion. Vatican II did not teach any dogmas, and it has been many times misinterpreted by the liberation theologians and critical perspective biblical scholars, no doubt. However, there does seem to be some real fruit of Vatican 2 interpreted in continuity with all that came before it [to use Emeritus Pope Benedict’s term] with respect to our relationship with the Orthodox. Vatican 2 allowed Pope Paul VI to meet Patriarch Athagoras in 1964. The Eastern Patriarch has journeyed to Rome to celebrate the feast of Saints Peter and Paul in the past, at one such celebration, Pope Benedict and the Patriarch led the Catholics gathered at the Mass in reciting the Nicene Creed. The recent meeting of Pope Francis and the Patriarch was really interesting.

So this could be a major, major, major. In addition, I think the Orthodox are having a Synod in 2017 so it will be interesting as to how this plays out. If the Patriarch of Constantinople says for 1,700 anniversary of the Council of Nicea, he is calling for the Orthodox and Roman Church to meet together, I wonder if his brother Bishops will listen to him, or maybe how many will listen.

Now I pray at a theological level, this happens because God is one, and Christ is one and his Church is one, both visibly and spiritually and with the Orthodox, we share 99.99999% already. Now there is a side of me that would also like to see this happen if just to see the FR Protestant heads here allegorically “explode”

[DManA]

Why do you think Protestant heads would explode? Wouldn’t be all that significant to me.

[Salvation]

There are different kinds of Councils.

The Top Ten Most Important Church Councils
On the 50th Anniversary of the Second Vatican Council
Vatican II, 50 Years Later : The council brought great controversy, but eventually, a greater gift
It is the Decision of the Holy Spirit and Us….On the Council of Jerusalem...(Catholic Caucus)

Ecumenical Councils
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 1870-1962
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 1123-1545
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 49-870
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Acts 15 Model: General- Ecumenical Councils of the Church Universal
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Biblical Model for Handing On Truth and Refuting Error: Acts 15, The Council of Jerusalem
A Timeline of Catholic Church history, 1-500 A.D. (includes Councils, Canon of the Bible)
MAJOR COUNCILS OF THE CHURCH - 1st Council of Nicaea - 325 A.D. (1st in a series)
MAJOR COUNCILS OF THE CHURCH - 1st Council of Constantinople - 381 A.D. (2nd in a series)
MAJOR CHURCH COUNCILS - The Council Of Chalcedon - 451 A.D.

[CTrent1564]

DManA:

Well, for one, there is the constant use of Orthodox and their Theology when FR Prots here criticize or debate Catholic theology, although most of those who cite it don’t understand what they are citing for even the Patriarch in his Joint Letter with the Pope speaks of “Sister Churches”