How a Protestant spin machine hid the truth about the English Reformation

Telegraph UK blog ^ | Sunday 25 May 2014 | Dominic Selwood

[Not gonna take it anymore]

. . . . For centuries, the English have been taught that the late medieval Church was superstitious, corrupt, exploitative, and alien. Above all, we were told that King Henry VIII and the people of England despised its popish flummery and primitive rites. England was fed up to the back teeth with the ignorant mumbo-jumbo magicians of the foreign Church, and up and down the country Tudor people preferred plain-speaking, rational men like Wycliffe, Luther, and Calvin. Henry VIII achieved what all sane English and Welsh people had long desired ­– an excuse to break away from an anachronistic subjugation to the ridiculous medieval strictures of the Church.

, . . But the last 30 years have seen a revolution in Reformation research. Leading scholars have started looking behind the pronouncements of the religious revolution’s leaders – Henry VIII, Thomas Cromwell, Thomas Cranmer, Hugh Latimer, Nicholas Ridley – and beyond the parliamentary pronouncements and the great sermons. Instead, they have begun focusing on the records left by ordinary English people. This “bottom up” approach to history has undoubtedly been the most exciting development in historical research in the last 50 years. It has taken us away from what the rulers want us to know, and steered us closer towards what actually happened.

[roamer_1]

How very typical! You get blasted with nasty, non-Religion Forum allowable language and the dimwit fails to notice you're mirroring BACK a bigoted comment made by an RC. Someone's mirror must be quite smudgy!

Or maybe...

[af_vet_1981]

Sorry, but I vaguely remember a survey that said over 50% of young Catholics believed same sex marriage was OK, not to mention a larger % of Catholic support abortion than all Evangelical combined, even those of evangelicals cults are against abortion at a greater % than are Catholics.

Yes, the baptized Catholics who rebel, do not go to mass weekly, do not really believe the Gospel or what the Church teaches; abandon faith, if they had any; they are protesters at heart. However the Catholic Church, and Fundamentalists, are not democratically oriented when it comes to doctrine. Given the particular hierarchy and doctrine of the Catholic Church, I do not foresee young Catholics who do not believe what the Church teaches being able to change Catholic doctrine. They are more likely to switch to denominations that have already conformed to the world views giving them trouble. Take contraception and divorce for example. The Evangelicals do not proscribe contraception and have different views on divorce and remarriage. They do not seriously regard it as adultery, for adulterers cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and Evangelicals still regard adulterers as inheriting the kingdom of God despite their works, as long as they made a true profession of faith. They see no eternal risk from the adultery, for they teach them they already have eternal security and nothing they do can cause them to lose their salvation.

[OneVike]

Bull!

Evangelicals look at it as Paul did. We are all sinners, and fall short of the glory of God. But for the blood of Christ we are all damned to hell.

"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. " Romans 3:21-26

However, unless you fail to ask for forgiveness in your heart you are saved and forgiven. As David said,

"For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it; You do not delight in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart-- These, O God, You will not despise. Psalm 51:16-17

So ask for forgiveness from the heart, and by the way, David did not go through the Temple Priest, he went straight to God. We now go straight to God through Christ. We do not need a priest to be the middle man. Christ wiped away the Temple Priesthood.

Last I read, all sin is punishable by damnation, even the sins of thought. Unless you ask Him to forgive you, you are not saved, but as John tells us,

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1John 1:9

Peter himself denied Christ, but God forgave him. So what you claim if pure idiocy coming from ignorance.

However, we do have proof that the Catholic Church just ignores the rules by offering annulments for marriages so that there is no messy divorce. Remember the swimmer Ted Kennedy? The Catholic Church willingly annulled Ted Kennedy's marriage to Joan. So after 30 some years the Church just pretended they were never married. Great doctrine.

I have yet to see any Evangelical church doctrine that allows for one to pretend they were never married after 30 years and several children just so they can marry another person they have been sleeping with while never being denied communion.

Talk about allowing Catholics to commit adultery with no fear of damnation is exactly what they told ted Kennedy, and millions of other Catholics who have committed adultery through the years. I guess it depends upon the amount of ones tithing huh?

Kennedy's are not the only ones given such privilege, the annals of history are chalk full of tyrants, mob bosses, and billionaires who were given the same special considerations in return for large donations to the Catholic Church.

Try again my friend.

[OneVike]

You will never ever read of me attacking all Catholics as you did Evangelicals.

You may as well; because as sure as Hell you'll get blamed for it!

LOL, your right. I was on another thread already and I never did. Too funny.

[OneVike]

For lack of a like button,

[af_vet_1981]

Evangelicals look at it as Paul did.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

[OneVike]

That is why asking forgiveness is an ongoing process, otherwise king David would be in Hell right no, for he committed a few of those sins.

Not to mention, Christ said if you thunk it, you done it.

So except for Christ continually forgiving you by going to Him, we would all die and go to Hell!

The difference is, I go straight to God through Christ. You think you need a Priest on earth to get absolution which is wrong.

Of course if your Catholic and have enough money you can have your marriage annulled as if it never happened so you are not guilty of adultery.

For us protestants, divorce is the only way out of a marriage, and then only for sexual immorality by the other spouse.

[af_vet_1981]

The difference is, I go straight to God through Christ. You think you need a Priest on earth to get absolution which is wrong.

Do you believe these scriptures that he told the Apostles (and those who were eligible to be Apostles) ?

• Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
• Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

[Cronos]

As he points out, that was not so prevelant in the 1500s. In fact, that “revival” would have been triggered off by the destruction of Churches by Henry 8

[Cronos]

well, the US opted out of kings permanently so no dynastic succession. In the case of England, arguably the ruling line ended with Henry 7’s coming to power — he was vaguely related to the Plantagenets. And this was exacerbated by bringing the Germans over to rule England. PRincess Di married into a good German family

[Cronos]

genoa "I'll agree that..."

Of course, this is for specifically the English reformation

[Cronos]

especially in the case of Anglicanism, this lost the connection between the people and the Church, paving the wave for Methodism and now atheism in England

[Cronos]

it depends on which "reformation" we talk about. The Anglican one, as we see, was political. The Lutheran was somewhat political as was Calvinism, but both had more of a religious element than Anglicanism's start

But the ones that came after that redid EVERYTHING like Unitarianism etc. got even Luther's gall up. That point of discord for the point of discord led to cynicism in all aspects of Christianity imho

[ckilmer]

it depends on which “reformation” we talk about. The Anglican one, as we see, was political. The Lutheran was somewhat political as was Calvinism, but both had more of a religious element than Anglicanism’s start
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Agree. Both Luther and Calvin started out religious but events gave them a political element. in the end in Europe —no one could live in a province where their prince was from a different denomination. What characterized the 13 American colonies at the time of the American revolution was that they were populated mostly the losers of the wars of the 18th century. The losers of the wars of the 18th century in England and on the continent were Calvinists. (Not the catholics, lutherans or anglicans)That included the English puritans the Scottish Presbyterians, the reformed German, dutch Swiss and Swedish churches as well as the small french Huguenot churches. The exceptions were the British Anglican church —which at the time took on the trappings of the Calvinists in the colonies just as the anglicans take on the trappings of pagans today. Also there were Swiss Mennonites, Amish.

The writer of the American constitution and the federalist papers—the man who developed the system of checks and balances and separation of powers—that is limited government— was James Madison. He was a thorough going Calvinist.

The Catholics and Lutherans didn’t arrive in the USA in numbers until the 19th century.
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But the ones that came after that redid EVERYTHING like Unitarianism etc. got even Luther’s gall up. That point of discord for the point of discord led to cynicism in all aspects of Christianity imho
..............
I agree with this even more violently than you. Its not quite accurate to say that Unitarianism led to the collapse of Christianity among both catholics and protestants in Europe and the inward collapse of the liberal protestant denominations in America. No that’s not quite accurate.

What is accurate to say is that the low view of Christ—that is—that Christ is just a man—and not also God himself caused the collapse of Christianity in the west. Why? Because the result is that anyone who adheres to creed remains dead in their sin. No one is born again. And most god awful—the central mystery of the Christianity becomes a human sacrifice. everyone who walks out of those churches might as well have rings on their fingers, bells on their toes —and bones in their noses.