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To: ckilmer
it depends on which "reformation" we talk about. The Anglican one, as we see, was political. The Lutheran was somewhat political as was Calvinism, but both had more of a religious element than Anglicanism's start

But the ones that came after that redid EVERYTHING like Unitarianism etc. got even Luther's gall up. That point of discord for the point of discord led to cynicism in all aspects of Christianity imho

173 posted on 05/29/2014 10:24:54 PM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos

it depends on which “reformation” we talk about. The Anglican one, as we see, was political. The Lutheran was somewhat political as was Calvinism, but both had more of a religious element than Anglicanism’s start
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Agree. Both Luther and Calvin started out religious but events gave them a political element. in the end in Europe —no one could live in a province where their prince was from a different denomination. What characterized the 13 American colonies at the time of the American revolution was that they were populated mostly the losers of the wars of the 18th century. The losers of the wars of the 18th century in England and on the continent were Calvinists. (Not the catholics, lutherans or anglicans)That included the English puritans the Scottish Presbyterians, the reformed German, dutch Swiss and Swedish churches as well as the small french Huguenot churches. The exceptions were the British Anglican church —which at the time took on the trappings of the Calvinists in the colonies just as the anglicans take on the trappings of pagans today. Also there were Swiss Mennonites, Amish.

The writer of the American constitution and the federalist papers—the man who developed the system of checks and balances and separation of powers—that is limited government— was James Madison. He was a thorough going Calvinist.

The Catholics and Lutherans didn’t arrive in the USA in numbers until the 19th century.
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But the ones that came after that redid EVERYTHING like Unitarianism etc. got even Luther’s gall up. That point of discord for the point of discord led to cynicism in all aspects of Christianity imho
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I agree with this even more violently than you. Its not quite accurate to say that Unitarianism led to the collapse of Christianity among both catholics and protestants in Europe and the inward collapse of the liberal protestant denominations in America. No that’s not quite accurate.

What is accurate to say is that the low view of Christ—that is—that Christ is just a man—and not also God himself caused the collapse of Christianity in the west. Why? Because the result is that anyone who adheres to creed remains dead in their sin. No one is born again. And most god awful—the central mystery of the Christianity becomes a human sacrifice. everyone who walks out of those churches might as well have rings on their fingers, bells on their toes —and bones in their noses.


174 posted on 05/30/2014 6:56:32 AM PDT by ckilmer
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