Posted on 04/27/2014 6:45:53 PM PDT by Salvation
VATICAN CITY – Pope Francis declared Popes John XXIII and John Paul II saints before some 800,000 people on Sunday in an unprecedented ceremony made even more historic by the presence of emeritus Pope Benedict XVI in St. Peter's Square.
Never before have a reigning pope and a retired pope celebrated Mass together in public, much less at an event honoring two of their most famous predecessors.
Benedict's presence was a reflection of the balancing act that Francis envisioned when he decided to canonize John and John Paul together, showing the unity of the Catholic Church by honoring popes beloved by conservatives and progressives alike.
Francis made that point clear in his homily, praising both new saints for their work associated with the Second Vatican Council, the groundbreaking meetings that brought the 2,000-year-old institution into modern times. John convened the council in 1962 while John Paul helped ensure its more conservative implementation and interpretation.
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Francis took a deep breath and paused for a moment before reciting the saint-making formula in Latin at the start of the ceremony, as if moved by the history he was about to make in canonizing two popes at once.
He said that after deliberating, consulting and praying for divine assistance "we declare and define that Blessed John XXIII and John Paul II be saints and we enroll them among the saints, decreeing that they are to be venerated as such by the whole church."
Applause broke out from a crowd that stretched from St. Peter's to the Tiber River and beyond.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Thank you,Lord, for the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Amen.
Thank you, Pope Francis and Pope Benedict XVI, for making the faithful sure that these two virtuous men are truly Saints and models for the Church today.
I join in your prayer of thanksgiving. Bless you.
Bless you both for trying to explain, but it is hopeless, IMO.
Praying for the detractors is all we can do.
My mother was fond of repeating the old admonition:
Don’t let them get your goat.
“No, Salvation is correct...”
Thank you for sharing your opinion. Do you have any facts to support it?
How so? It was during his long pontificate that the world-wide sex abuse crisis grew, festered and was concealed.
And --- as you note ---Saints have been honored in the Church since the first century of the Christian era. But the complex courtroom-type process to evaluate a candidate for canonization wasn't set up until 1,000 yeas later. And this was, in part, to stave off the "popular vote" honors going to war heroes, matriarchs of nobility, rich donors, sweet pretty girls who died young, and others who may have appealed to people on a celebrity level, but who might have had a certain mediocrity as to faith and morals.
Therefore the bishops installed a process that would take years, hopefully after the first emotions about a local celebrity's death had died down (typically a generation later) and there was still time to interview people who knew them, examine their writings in detail, see if the Devil's Advocate digs up any dirt, pray and wait... and wait ... and wait... for a couple of authenticating miracles, etc.
I personally favor this method, and my own opinion is that Pope Francis acted WAY too fast to canonize these two popes, especially +JP2 (although he does two well-attested miracles linked to his intercesssory prayer.) In my opinion, they should have waited until 2050 r so. But---
That'll be two cent, please.
There's my two cents' worth.
After there's been a well-attested miracle or two, the "formula," is more or less saying, "OK, God, we hear ya loud and clear."
My own guess--- and it is admittedly a guess --- is that he was unaware of the presence of what Pope Francis now calls the "Gay Lobby" --- when there are secret networks of homosexuals in key positions (e.g. rectors of seminaries) who recommend each other, promote each other, and cover up for each other.
Some of these "secretive" operators are deceitful, manipulative, and cunning to such a degree that an honest normal person never even suspects because they cannot fathom it.
The future sure ain't what it used to be. /s/
1 Corinthians 12:28Not all, but only some:
"And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers; then deeds of power, then gifts of healing, forms of assistance, forms of leadership, various kinds of tongues."
1 Corinthians 12:29and to endow those teachers with His authority:
"Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?"
Luke 10:16
‘Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me, and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.’
So these things you call "made up" flow from the mandate Christ gave to His Church. Not Biblical? Of course they're Biblical -- in this sense: they come from the reality of the Church doing what it needs to to doing order to teach, govern, and sanctify.
The Church is not a fly trapped in amber, fossilized and inert for centuries. The Church, springing from that mustard-seed of faith, becomes the largest of garden plants, where even the birds can come and nest.
I got that information from where I get all my Catholic information, from other Catholics...That came from a piece posted by a Catholic in a censored thread...
Mrs. Don-o,
Because of my respect and appreciate for you, I will not take your post apart, verse by verse.
I will simply say that on every point I find the Scriptures are not saying what you wrote. Ironically, there are different reasons for each point.
In any case, what you are arguing is that the Church can teach whatever it wishes, without the restrictions of God’s revelation, because it is the church. This is a false argument.
In this instance, the Roman Church invented a process to create a new super-Christian title that is foreign to Scripture. It perverts the simplicity of what God inspired and revealed and consequently, diminishes His revelation of EVERY believer’s position in Christ. It clouds the understanding of the members of the Body of Christ who may be included in the Roman Church.
For these reasons and others, it is a man-made religious ladder of works that is to be rejected.
kindest regards.
So these things you call "made up" flow from the mandate Christ gave to His Church. Not Biblical? Of course they're Biblical -- in this sense: they come from the reality of the Church doing what it needs to to doing order to teach, govern, and sanctify.
Just because they are in the bible doesn't make them biblical...
Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Is there anyone in your religion who has the power to tread on scorpians and serpents without injury??? How about do your clergy have all power over all the power of the enemy??? I certainly hope you said no...
In which case it is abundantly clear that these verses don't apply to you, your religion or anyone you know...
Well, there's your problem.
A more intellectually respectable source of Catholic information would be from official teachers or official summaries of the teachings e.g. the Catechism, which is searchable (LINK)in a couple of mouse clicks.
If you want to get information about the relationship between biliary metal stents and air embolism, you could talk to a guy who has a stent, or you could go to cardiologists or medical journals. If it's a matter of life or death to you, I'd recommend the latter.
Not true. That is absolutely NOT what I am arguing. (???I'm surprised you could even imagine such a thing.)
Obviously the Truth is One and is non-self-contradictory. The Church cannot contradict the truths of Scripture, which are the words of the Lord God.
"... Roman Church invented a process to create a new super-Christian title that is foreign to Scripture."
Not true, again. "Saint" just means "Holy," and in most of Europe's languages (the Romance languages) they are expressed by the same word (variations on Sancta) Like Spanish: Santa Cruz = Holy Cross.
Also in the Germanic languages (Heilig, etc.) So Christians can apply the word "holy" to any number of people, places, customs, or things, if they are sepecially associated with, or dedicated to, God.
Think of these terms: Holy Bible. Holy Night. Sacred Music. Holy Land. Sacred Cross. Holy Apostles. Sacred Art. Holy Books. Sacred duty.
None of those phrases are verbatim in the Bible,--- for that matter,the word "Bible" is not even in the Bible--- but we use them every day. Even if they ARE new super-Christian titles not found in Scripture. The canon (book-list) of the BIBLE is not fund in Scripture. So I do not think it unbiblical to speak of holy saints who hold up their holy hands, etc.
God makes things holy. That's it.
I appreciate your gracious and cordial tone, as always. No need to think that any of this is said, or perceived, disrespectfully. We know each other better than that, dear AMPU!
I also understand that some complicit Bishops were nominated by Bernardin and Jadot. I call them Bernardin’s Boys and Jadot’s Jots.
I also think that almost all these left-leaning Bishops have been replaced. There are only a couple or so left. Or maybe Hubbard was the last one.
**I get all my Catholic information, from other Catholics**
This is making you sound as though you are a Catholic. Is that true?
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