“over” is NOT the proper question.
There was no Christian canon until the 4th century, so what was the authority prior to that point?
God has much to say about shepherd-less churches whose traditions make His WORD null and void.
It's similar, but the greatest difference may be that the US Constitution explicitly tells how to amend it, which makes backdoor changes to it even more egregious.
The Church was here before the Bible.
I could not sleep several nights ago so I turned the tv on. I was changing channels when I came across EWTN. A couple was on explaining the Stations of the Cross. I was amazed when the lady said Mary was our Co-Redeemer. I have no idea why people actually believe that but I had never heard it before.
Luke 8:11 and parable of the sower addresses this.
The seed is the Word of God.
No church without the crop that comes from the seed.
What the author fails to realize is that by saying “This teaching office is not above the Word of God, but serves it,” Rome is not saying Scripture is always superior to the Magisterium, as "the Word of God" for RCs is not restricted to Scripture, but includes whatever Rome says it is with her nebulous tradition.
And as Rome presumes to alone to assuredly define what true Scripture, tradition and history consists of and means, thus she alone is the supreme authority on it.
The Roman reasoning is that are you saying that being the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture means they are the infallible interpreters of it (the we gave you the Bible" polemic), so that dissent from them is rebellion against God.
The problem with that line of reasoning is that it effectively nukes the church, since it began in dissent from those who had historical descent, and sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, the instruments and stewards of Scripture, and inheritors of divine promises of God's presence and preservation. (Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Num. 23:19,23; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Mal. 3:6; Rm. 3:2; 9:4).
Unto whom “were committed the oracles of God.” “Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.” (Romans 9:4-5)
But whom, like Rome, they likewise presumed of themselves a veracity above Scripture,* and thus rejected Christ and His apostles, asking, like Rome, "By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?" (Mark 11:28)
But the church began in dissent, following a holy man in the desert who ate insects and an itinerant Preacher who reproved the magisterium by Scripture, and who established His truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power. As did the apostles and early church (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.) - not the premise of a perpetual assuredly infallible magisterium, regardless of Rome defining herself as having such.
For Scripture is the assured Word of God and transcendent standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims, as is abundantly evidenced.
Ex. 17:14; 24:4,7,12; 31:18; 32:15; 34:1,27; 35:29; Lv. 8:36; 10:10,11; 26:46; Num. 4:5,37,45,49; 9:23; 10:13; 15:23; 16:40; 27:23; 33:2; 36:13; Dt. 4:13; 5:22; 9:10; 10:2,4; 17:18,19; 27:3,8; 28:58,61; 29:20,21,27; 30:10; 31:9,11,19,22,26; 33:4; Josh. 1:7,8; 8:31,32,34,35; 10:13; 14:2; 20:2; 21:2; 22:5,9; 23:6; 24:26; Jdg. 3:4; 1Sam. 10:25; 2Sam. 1:8; 1Ki. 2:3; 8:53,56; 12:22; 2Ki. 1:8; 14:6; 17:37; 22:8,10,13,16; 23:2,21; 1Ch. 16:40; 17:3,9; 2Ch. 23:18; 25:4; 31:3; 33:8; 34:13-16,18,19,21,24; 34:30; 35:6,12; Ezra 3:2,4; 6:18; Neh. 6:6; 8:1,3,8,15,18; 9:3,14; 10:34,36; 13:1; Psa. 40:7; Is. 8:20; 30:8; 34:16; 65:6; Jer. 17:1; 25:13; 30:2; 36:2,6,10,18,27,28; 51:60; Dan. 9:11,13; Hab. 2:2;
Mat. 1:22; 2:5,15,17,18; 3:3; 4:4,6,7,10,14,15; 5:17,18,33,38,43; 8:4,17; 9:13; 11:10; 12:3,5,17-21,40,41; 13:14,15,35; 14:3,4,7-9;19:4,5,17-19; 21:4,5,13,16,42; 22:24,29,31,32,37,39,43,44; 23:35;24:15; 26:24,31,54,56; 27:9,10,35; Mark 1:2,44; 7:3,10; 9:12,13; 10:4,5; 11:17; 12:10,19,24,26 13:14; 14:21,47,49; 15:28; Lk. 2:22,23.24; 3:4,5,6; 4:4,6-8,10,12,16,17,18,20,25-27; 5:14; 7:27; 8:10; 10:26,27; 16:29,31; 18:20,31; 19:46; 20:17,18, 28,37,42,43; 22:37; 23:30; 24:25.27,32,44,45,46; Jn. 1:45; 2:17,22; 3:14; 5:39,45-47; 6:31,45; 7:19,22,23,38,42,51,52; 8:5,17; 9:26; 10:34,35; 12:14,15,38-41; 15:25; 17:12; 19:24,28,36,37; 20:9,31; 21:24; Acts 1:20; 2:16-21,25-28,34,35; 3:22,23,25; 4:11,25,26; 7:3,7,27,28,32,33,37,40,42,43,49,50,53; 8:28,30,32,33; 10:43;13:15,27,29,33,39; 15:5,15-17,21; 17:2,11; 18:13.24,28; 21:20,24; 22:12; 23:3,5; 24:14; 26:22; 28:23,26,27; Rom 1:2,17; 2:10-21,31; 4:3,7,17,18,23,24; 5:13; 7:1-3,7,12,14,16; 8:4,36; 9:4,9,12,13,15,17,25-29,33; 10:11,15,19; 11:2-4,8,9,26,27; 12:19,20; 13:8-10; 14:11; 15:3,4,9-12,21; 16:16,26,27; 1Cor. 1:19,31; 2:9; 3:19,20; 4:6; 6:16; 7:39; 9:9,10; 10:7,11,26,28; 14:21,34; 15:3,4,32,45,54,55; 2Cor. 1:13; 2:3,4; 3:7,15; 4:13; 6:2;16; 7:12; 8:15; 9:9; 10:17; 13:1; Gal. 3:6,8,10-13; 4:22,27,30; 5:14; Eph. 3:3,4; (cf. 2Pt. 3:16); Eph. 4:8; 5:31; 6:2,3; (cf. Dt. 5:16); Col. 4:16; 1Thes. 5:27; 1Tim. 5:18; 2Tim. 3:14,16,17; Heb. 1:5,7-13; 2:5-8,12,13; 3:7-11,15; 4:3,4,7; 5:5,6; 6:14; 7:17,21,28; 8:5,8-13; 9:20; 10:5-916,17,28,30,37; 11:18; 12:5,6,12,26,29; 13:5,6,22; James 2:8,23; 4:5; 1Pet. 1:16,24,25; 2:6,7,22; 3:10-12; 5:5,12; 2Pet. 1:20,21; 2:22; 3:1,15,16; 1Jn. 1:4; 2:1,7,8,12,13,21; 5:13; Rev. 1:3,11,19; 2:1,8,12,18; 3:1,7,12,14; 14:13; 19:9; 21:5; 22:6,7;10,18,19
“Thus, even though Rome claims that the Bible is its ultimate authority, practically speaking it is the church that is the ultimate authority.”
Are Protestant anti-Catholic just plain stupid? That is the only way I can see so many of them having such poor reading comprehension. “Rome” does not claim the Bible is “its ultimate authority”. The Catholic Church claims that the “Magisterium is not superior to the word of God, but its servant” and that the “word” is not restricted to what is scripture. Thus, not only is the premise of the above article wrong, but clearly the author of the article - who may be stupid don’t forget - doesn’t even understand the doctrines he is attacking.
There was the Church before the bible.
PS: stop misrepresenting what the Catholic Church teaches.
There’s really no such thing in reality as ‘Bible alone.’
>>“We are under the Bible, but the Bible is what ______ says it is.”
Look at the Jehovah’s Witnesses ... church over bible ..rewrite!
Look at the mormons (whatchamacallem) ... church over bible ... REWRITE!
What year after The Council at Nicea, did the Roman Catholics decide to stick those pages in the bible, that the evangelicals, don’t have? Ergo, church over bible ... REWRITE!
Isn’t it that ol’ crazy hermit named John, that wrote the last lines, including no one shall change to more of less of what was written, under some kind of divine smiting?
I know, I know:
Geneva bible, the one that The Pilgrims brought with them; King James bible; Revised Standard Version; New International Version; Today’s English Version, (Ezeliel - “Everything is dung!”); not to mention the slight rewrite from The Messianic Jews, too.
I have been witness of “wrong church, wrong version in use”, and the correction from the pastor, directly.
[A side note on that .... why cannot the churchgoer use the version that THEY are comfortable with? This is AMERICA, not the Church of England.]
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
It should be quite plainly understood that the "church" (the called-out ones, assembly of believers) has been gifted by God with His Divinely-inspired words so that we may have an objective and authoritative resource to know the truth from error of our faith. I like the example given of the role our supreme court judges are given to determine the Constitutionality of any laws passed by Congress. When those in power - whether secular or religious - presume to be ABOVE the authority established as the benchmark of truth, all manner of abuses can and will happen.
Without the truths established by God and passed down to us through sacred Scripture, all we could have is a subjective, human-level understanding without any assurance that they are right or true. We can look at all manner of past history in the field of science or medicine, for example, to see that "truth" was found out by trial and error - with human lives in the balance. God spoke and he ensured that His eternal truth was recorded in a way that even thousands of years later we can STILL be assured in what we believe. The "church" MUST always be in subjection to Scripture, because it IS the word of God - His speaking to us and communicating His will to all who would hear and obey. It is foolishness to think the "church" is an authority over the Bible.
This is a false premise. The Bible is not a constitution. There are several bibles which are a select collection of writings over the course of centuries.
Some of the writings seem to contradict others. I see it as a heroic attempt by Christian scholars to pass on the accumulated teachings of Jesus and the wisdom of the old testament.
The Church is a human endeavor to perpetuate the work of Jesus.
Catholics will say church
I won’t.
Christ didn't need man to invent holy days...he had that covered.
Interesting essay.
I the beginning was the WORD, and the word was with GOD, and the word WAS God.
Is God over the church or vice versa? Easy question to answer. Next.