Posted on 03/19/2014 8:19:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION
PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"
Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church
963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503
The problem remains here is that i am not dishonoring Mary based on what is written, which the Holy Spirit provides and you should not go beyond, but my censure is against the hyperexaltation of her that does, and the irrational reactionary attacks on those who oppose this hyperexaltation.
I did not at all separate Mary from Israel, "of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." (Romans 9:5) But apparently you are so determined to interpret a text as referring to Mary, that even many church "fathers interpreted differently, and you own church does not infallibly teach, that if anyone does not concur with you then they are anti-Mary, and linked to the devil, and trying to separate her from the Israel of God, or the LORD Jesus Christ! Which reaction is simply cultic.
Says the man who won't.
I am not shocked that you appear to think you are capable of explaining anything.
No need to doubt ANYTHING.
There IS a catholic (non-roman) answer for Everything.
Yes I did. All titles for God. As is my point. No one refutes the Titles and Names of God. If you want to extrapolate a non-scriptural title for blessed Mary the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, it is your freedom to do so. The question was how does one derive the title Mother of God without the scriptural evidence?
Some posters went with Elizabeth’s proclamation of “the mother of my Lord.” What I presented is that the “Lord” used in Luke 1:43 is not the same use of “LORD” used in for example Isaiah 44:6 and other OT references. To draw such a conclusion of “Kyrios-Lord” with “YHWH-LORD” would have Elizabeth proclaiming Mary is the mother of “YHWH.” I asked several times if this was the conclusion. The answer has been questions if “Jesus Christ is God.”
I then pointed out “Lord” kyrios was used often in the NT as a title for Christ Jesus. A clear example of such is when Thomas proclaims in John 20:28—“My Lord and my God!”
To which my question was did Thomas use “Lord” as kyrios (a title of master/lord) was he saying “My God and my God!” Which clearly he is not.
That’s the discussion. No one is questioning the Deity of Jesus Christ Son of the Living God, Truly God and Truly Man. If you still have doubt I will ping you to the quarterly JW debates me and others participate in refuting their heresies.
Got it.
So if calling Mary *mother of Jesus* is not heresy, then why change it?
And why accuse someone of denying the deity of Christ because they adhere to what the Holy Spirit inspired John and Luke to pen?
bttt
****Mary don’t know, for she ain’t there yet.****
We have no idea what glories God has for us in His heavenly Kingdom.
And some just have no idea period.
Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
The question was how does one derive the title Mother of God without the scriptural evidence?
Yet I have given you scriptural evidence. According to the Scriptures Mary is the mother of Emmanuel, which being interpreted by the Scripture means "God with us" so Mary is the mother of "God with us." It was right in front of you all along. If anyone does not have faith to use a title, let him not use it.
By calling Mary the "Mother of God", they leave out the explanation that she is the mother of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and not the actual triune Godhead. Like you have said over and over again, it muddies the doctrine of the Deity of Jesus rather than clarifying it. I doubt you will get some here to concede that point since they MUST obey the dictates of their magesterium or excommunicate themselves.
Colossians 2:9-10 KJV
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
it appears that way...
John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Then why didn't the Catholic church change her title to *Mary, mother of God with us* instead of *Mary, mother of God*, which does not say the same thing?
Oh! Wait a minute. The HOLY SPIRIT did it before the Catholic church ever thought of it.
Imagine that.......
Actually, by saying *Mary, mother of God* it denies His humanity.
It leads into another error about Jesus and creates new error about Mary and the Godhead.
“Says the man who won’t.”
There’s no need.
“I am not shocked that you appear to think you are capable of explaining anything”.
That’s okay.
“There IS a catholic (non-roman) answer for Everything.”
The only catholic answer is Catholic.
“So if calling Mary *mother of Jesus* is not heresy, then why change it?”
There is no change. Jesus is still God and always will be.
“And why accuse someone of denying the deity of Christ because they adhere to what the Holy Spirit inspired John and Luke to pen?”
The Lord = God. To deny Mary gave birth to God is to deny Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit inspired Elizabeth to say “mother of my Lord” in Luke 1:43.
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