Posted on 03/17/2014 6:09:45 AM PDT by marshmallow
BERLIN — The new leader of Germany’s Roman Catholic bishops is signaling support for allowing some divorced but remarried Catholics to receive Communion after a “penitential period.”
Cardinal Reinhard Marx, who also sits on a panel that helps advise Pope Francis on Vatican reform, was elected Wednesday to head the German Bishops’ Conference.
Church teaching holds that unless their first marriage is annulled, remarried Catholics can’t receive Communion or other sacraments. The church is now discussing anew how to handle such cases.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3134103/posts?page=13#13
What I take issue with is how the catholic church has been involved with many sinful acts throughout the centuries, yet it's all counted as the evolution of the faith.
Sure, God hate divorce. I'm quite sure it was never intended for man to divorce. Fact is, satan toils eternally to destroy peoples lives. Works endlessly to separate us from a relationship with God.
Our enemies are the world, the flesh and the devil. This is why the grace of our Lord is so powerful to set the captive free.
The good news!
It’s from the Bible. I thought all the non-Catholics based their faith on the Bible......am I wrong?
But we are talking about marriage, divorce and then remarriage. Not other subjects.
I am not taking issue with the translation, only pointing out that there are various translations because the term has not direct English equivalent. In fact, I like this translation. Fornication can only take place before marriage. If our Lord had meant marital infidelity as an exception then he would have called it adultery, as he calls those who remarry after divorce.
If a man or woman fools around after the divorce then it is adultery???
Why yes:
But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (Matt. 5:32)What is adultery within a supposed second marriage is surely also adultery without even the benefit of this second false marriage.I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery. (Matt. 19:9)
Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. (Lk. 16:18)
Notice that in Matthew 19 Jesus precedes these words with a rejection of the Mosaic law allowing divorce:
He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”None of these remarks would make any sense if adultery or any other reason would allow for divorce and remarriage.They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss [her]?”
He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. (Matt. 19:4-8)
But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (Matt. 5:32)
I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery. (Matt. 19:9)
Well, one thing is for certain...You Catholics will pervert any and every scripture to make it line up with your false teaching...
Here's what the scripture really says...
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Are you saying that we are saved even if we adamantly refuse to turn away from our sins? Does this also apply to murderers, sodomites, thieves, etc.? Saint Paul would take exception to this:
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor. 6:9-10)As did Jesus Christ himself:Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Eph 5:5)
[Jesus said]: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ " (Matt. 7:21-23)While the idea of sola fide might be comforting, it is not the true gospel contained in Scripture.
“Porneia” is a difficult word to translate into English. “Unlawful marriage”, as in the New American Bible, and “fornication”, as in the Douay-Rhiems Bible, are both legitimate translations. But I will go with “fornication” if you wish. With this translation everything I said in post 26 still holds. Fornication can only describe sexual relations before marriage and can thus here only apply to the relationship of those divorcing, not to infidelity after marriage as a justification for divorce.
Nonsense...Of the 250+ English translations out there most all use fornication or sexual immorality as a translation for 'porneia'...Obviously it's not too difficult for the translators...
The NAB??? Most Catholics don't even read that Catholic perversion of the scriptures...
How in the world can 'unlawful marriage' in one bible and 'fornication' in another both be legitimate translations??? That's ridiculous...
The original meaning of “porneia” was actually prostitution. It came to have a broader meaning of general sexual immorality including fornication, incest, rape, and cohabitation. An unlawful marriage is obviously form of sexual immorality. Be that as it may, I will go with the translation of “fornication.” Again, with this translation everything that I pointed out in post 26 is still true. By addressing only the technicalities of the translation you are avoiding the fact even the translation you prefer supports the Catholic understanding of what our Lord taught.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Ya right...
Yes, right. If our Lord had intended infidelity he would have called it adultery, not fornication. If this were truly an exception then everything that he said before it would not make any sense; his response to the question would have simply be “only in the case of adultery.” Additionally, Luke has no such “exception”. The truth is that it is those who support divorce are the ones who are not following Scripture.
He DID call it adultery...What are you talking about???
And then you claimed the charge of fornication was an act before marriage...
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
As we can clearly see, the context is a married wife...The context is a married wife who commits fornication (obviously with someone other than the husband) relieves the husband of causing the charge of adultery... I don't see how you think you can twist these simple, easy to understand verses into something that it clearly does not say...
Adultery is breaking the wedding bond...Fornication is whoring about...
The context is a married wife who commits fornication (obviously with someone other than the husband) relieves the husband of causing the charge of adultery…
No, the adultery comes after the divorce. Nor can the porneia/fornication relieve the husband from causing her to commit adultery. Look again, anyone who marries her after the divorce commits adultery.
And then you claimed the charge of fornication was an act before marriage…
No, you completely misunderstand. The fornication is not an act before the marriage but rather an impediment that invalidates it. It is the union itself that is porneia/fornication. This is why with such a divorce there is no adultery if she marries. Any other reading makes a mockery of what Jesus says just before when he rejects the Mosaic law allowing for a bill of divorce. If adultery did indeed dissolve the wedding bond Jesus would have simply said so rather than attack the Mosaic law. Again, there is no such "exception" in Luke.
No it doesn't...Divorce invalidates the marriage...
If adultery did indeed dissolve the wedding bond
Adultery does not dissolve the wedding bond...Divorce does...
As in Luke, if you divorce your wife for (almost) any reason, there is adultery involved...
And then Matthew takes it a step further and tells us that if fornication is involved, there is no adultery attributed to the innocent party...
It's really that simple...But like I said, we are not under the law but under grace...Those verses in Mat, Mark and Luke do not apply to us who are under grace...It is no longer a sin to get divorced, for any reason...
Your religion fails whether it wants to be under the law, or under grace...
The answer is Jesus.
If divorce dissolves the wedding bond then how can our Lord say that if a man marries a divorced woman he is committing adultery? There can only be adultery if the bond of the previous marriage still exists.
“We haven’t had a full fledged schism in centuries. Looks like the Germans are itching for one. But if they do go, will the Vatican do what’s right or simply tag along?”
The American Church has been in schism for decades; we have lay people giving out the Eucharist while the party of abortion and homosexuality carries the “Catholic” regions of the country reliably.
Good point. But it’s not an open, declared schism.
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