No to mention he seems to have bad theology.... maybe some 'holiness' wesleyan deception he had.
Posted on 01/15/2014 5:30:34 PM PST by Gamecock
Ted Haggard, a preacher who stepped down in 2006 from his position as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., following a sex and drug scandal, recently spoke out about Isaac Hunter’s suicide, an event that took the evangelical world by storm last week.
Focusing specifically on the scandals and charges of wrongdoing that have surrounded many famed preachers — himself included — Haggard said that evangelical Christians sometimes fail to properly apply the gospel when dealing with faith leaders who fall from grace.
Hunter, the former pastor of Summit Church in Orlando, Fla., had been facing personal issues since stepping down from his position late last year. His death, following the suicide of Pastor Rick Warren’s son, Matthew, earlier this year, has brought additional attention to mental health in evangelical circles.
“The news about Pastor Isaac Hunter breaks my heart. Great speaker, lover of God, and my guess is he loved the church. But he, like all of us, fell short,” Haggard wrote. “In the midst of divorce with accusations swirling, he resigned from the church he founded. He gave it his best shot, and his heart was broken.”
He continued, “This makes me sick to my stomach. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not sick that he fell short, that’s a given for everyone except Christ Himself, I’m sick that our message did not do what we all hoped – it did not fix the problem.”
Haggard said that, in the past, evangelical leaders who have been immersed in scandal were often seen as not true believers, however he said this simply isn’t the case. In fact, he argued that most people who are in ministry “are sincere followers of Christ.”
While many Christians assume that a conversion to the faith heals all past problems, Haggard said this wasn’t the case in his own experience. While he said that becoming a believer made him “a new creation spiritually,” Haggard noted that there was some “simple care” that would have helped him avoid the scandal and pain he caused his family.
“I was so ashamed in 2006 when my scandal broke. The therapeutic team that dug in on me insisted that I did not have a spiritual problem or a problem with cognitive ability, and that I tested in normal ranges on all of my mental health tests (MMPI, etc.).” he wrote. “Instead, I had a physiological problem rooted in a childhood trauma, and as a result, needed trauma resolution therapy. I had been traumatized when I was 7 years old, but when Bill Bright led me to the Lord when I was 16, I learned that I had become a new creature, a new person, and that I did not need to be concerned about anything in my past, that it was all covered by the blood.”
But Haggard said that his past was still impacting his life.
In the end, the former megapastor claimed that his Christian training was delivered by people who didn’t respect the mental health and neural science professions. This translated, he wrote, into a counterproductive situation, as he was taught to view all issues as being entirely spiritual in nature.
“If I prayed and fasted, I was more tempted. If I just worked in ministry, I experienced relief and was not tempted,” Haggard continued. “I thought it was spiritual warfare. It was not. My struggle was easily explained by a competent therapeutic team.”
Haggard said that he believes wholeheartedly in the Bible, but that Christianity has “abandoned the application of the gospel” and that, as a result, too much time is spent on image management and damage control.
“Every one of us have had sin horribly intrude in our lives after being saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, and God is faithfully healing us or has healed us,” he continued. “Why don’t we tell that? He has never left us or forsaken us when we’ve said and done the wrong thing. Why don’t we tell that?”
But I also believe that intercessory prayer helps many people, both the person prayed for and the persons doing the praying.Yes, I agree. Intercessory prayer is beneficial to everyone it touches, and signal graces have been sent in response to it. This has been documented by countless people since forever.
No problem!
That’s the first thing that jumped out of the article and slapped me in the face -
sin is never “fixed”, and sinners are never not sinners, not in this world -
we can be forgiven and redeemed, but we’re never free of sin.
I think that’s what caused this fellow’s downfall. He believed himself to be no longer capable of sin.
No to mention he seems to have bad theology.... maybe some 'holiness' wesleyan deception he had.
Hello. Jesus prayed in public, in front of other people.
Jesus explains it.
John 11:42
And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
That also jumped out at me too. Jesus didn’t come to solve my parking tickets or my neighbor’s cracked pavement. Nor did he come to wave his hand and heal everyone of disease or malcontent (although he could do this of course and does on occasion with miracles even today)
The problem really with religion in general today, as always really, we all want things “fixed”, there’s a perfectly natural desire for that, but we tend to project that desire onto God, expecting that out of him. And when it doesn’t happen, and eventually the miracles do run out (for what reason God knows) the “faith” we had built on such miracles crumbles like the house built on sand.
This is the danger of the “prosperity gospel” types, by the way.
So we are left with a choice when confronted with this reality: do we surrender a portion of our infinite desire for happiness, or perhaps explore the possibility that we are mistaken in our typical, secular view of God. A view that describes him as some kind of spiritual ATM, who, if we pray to enough, believe the “right” things about, and do enough things for, will then reward us with some blessing, either cure us of disease, give us some money, or make my parking tickets just disappear.
This is sadly prevalent in many Christian churches today of every denomination, and also even the Catholic Church (not to mention Judaism, Islam, and every other faith).
God is not an ATM. He didn’t come in the flesh to wave his hand and solve all problems. He came to lift us up, to make the lowly, mighty, but not by his power or our own power, but by accompanying us on a journey towards him, where ultimately we will be made whole.
Nothing happens to us that isn’t towards this goal. We are so misdirected though, that some things that happen to us appear to not be for our benefit. So we reject them, and attempt to “fix” them without our destiny toward him in mind.
Lost anymore, in our fast-paced instant culture is the concept of “redemptive suffering”, that suffering itself can (and does) serve a greater good, our own good. After all, Jesus suffered for our redemption-how arrogant it is to believe we not only shouldn’t have to go through our own suffering (carry our own cross), but also that suffering itself has no intrinsic value. To say suffering has no value is exactly saying the Cross has no value.
Until this fact is realized and accepted by everyone, anyone, people continue to attempt to “fix” things without him, fighting against the very reality God creates to actually help us.
There is no joy in suffering without Christ. It is truly the man on the road to redemption who can recognize this as truth.
So, you believe intercessory prayer for others is unnecessary or heretical? How about when the pastor leads the congregation in prayer, or prays at a wedding or funeral?
John 11.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
You can believe what Jesus said or you can believe the tradition of men.
Nice to know it’s “settled science” in your mind. What would you do if someone asked you to pray with them, or said grace aloud in your presence?
There is no joy in suffering without Christ. It is truly the man on the road to redemption who can recognize this as truth.Your whole commentary, good stuff! And in regard to suffering, as you know, most saints not only suffered well in Christ, but requested it when they just didn't have enough!! -lol-
Thanks.
Yes it’s remarkable how many saints in history actually requested more suffering. That’s not even talking about those who were martyrs.
Their example should truly move us to at least ask the question(s), “is there a point to suffering, and what should my response to it be? Were these many people crazy, or did they actually discover a greater truth?”
One of the other blessings saints give us. Their time on earth are a shinning beacon of inspiration of what not only can be done with Christ, but what should be done. Truly they were all either crazy lonely lunatics, or brilliant beacons shining a light of Another.
Their historical reality can’t be denied; it’s up to everyone who is truly serious about their destiny to take a hard, objective look at their lives and ask the questions above.
It’s the foolish and childishly silly who dismiss their example as cultish devotion or misguided delusion. Such a superficial conclusion is truly rooted in a denial of not only historical fact but also the humanity of every saint and their own.
Oh boy oh boy is this upside down.
He is discouraging praying and fasting. He is so shallow it is " pathetic." I fast and pray together at times. This is so powerful and awesome. When you fast it is so effective for the souls of men so the enemy of our souls is sending lethal temptation darts to the mind. I get the weirdest thoughts at a time to sin during true heartfelt prayer. I know that is not me. It is in recognizing it which wins the battle. You don't do it. This guy never had the break through to this sin of his temptation. It became him. Just fast folks with travail of prayer in Christ at times.
Truly they were all either crazy lonely lunatics, or brilliant beacons shining a light of Another. Their historical reality can’t be denied; it’s up to everyone who is truly serious about their destiny to take a hard, objective look at their lives and ask the questions above...It’s the foolish and childishly silly who dismiss their example as cultish devotion or misguided delusion. Such a superficial conclusion is truly rooted in a denial of not only historical fact but also the humanity of every saint and their own.Yes, exactly! I wish I knew every single one's life story. I wish each day I could walk in a different one's pair of shoes (or sandals)...
Not everything that's good is good for us.
God doesn't give us what we want but what we need to become conformed to the image of Christ.
There is widespread resistance in Pentecostal circles to the idea that God can and does use illness and economic hardship as tools to shape our character. It can be a very destructive theology especially to a new believer who is struggling and being blamed for his problems.
Exactly!
And how many times has that pic been posted in regards to a election?
Dave,I don't even have an entire argument.I've never yet struck anyone who seems to be worried about temptation after they've been "delivered from this body of death" in order to even think about an argument.
I think this stems more from our propensity to complicate things than anything else.
As metmom posted...."we shall be like Him"
When we eventually clap eyes on each other we'll probably bust a gut laughing at this.However,till then,may God bless you on your journey!
"cast your cares upon Him,for He careth for you"
We cannot say that for sure, as we know the Devil and other angels sinned. I would simply say that the saints in heaven would not sin, even if they could, for those and glory of those who fought sin here on earth, against the world's flashing the devil. And having now been freed from those three plagues, that will not be deceived anymore by the pleasures of sin which but for season, you want to grovel in its sewer now that they can fly like an eagle. To God be the glory, and how I wish I could live without sin every day but to the glory of God.
However, DaveMSmith belongs to occult led by a man vainly "puffed up by his fleshly mind" and who almost makes Joseph Smith looks sober, and with whom we have dealt with before: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3023264/posts?page=118#118 (and see links)
Actually the modern evangelical movement which at one time was basically synonymous with fundamentalist, began as a reaction against liberalism due to a shared common consent to core truths. But like any distinguishing term for distinctive group, which "Christian" was at one time, becomes watered down.
Yet evangelicals or evangelical churches are able to be classified as being so based on certain shared distinctives, and even in their present state, they remain the most committed conservative and unified group and basic moral views and key doctrines. See here regarding all that.
Globally, Pew research found that 98% of evangelical leaders agree that the Bible is the word of God - http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Christian/Evangelical_Protestant_Churches/Global%20Survey%20of%20Evan.%20Prot.%20Leaders.pdf
90% reject the so-called prosperity gospel, the notion that God will grant wealth and good health to those who have enough faith. 52% (75% in the “Global South”) believe drinking alcohol is incompatible with being a good evangelical, 97% likewise reject astrology, 96% reject reincarnation, 95% reject denying Jesus is the only way to salvation, 92% reject yoga. ^
A lot of that going on lately on the RF.
Nice to know it’s “settled science” in your mind. What would you do if someone asked you to pray with them, or said grace aloud in your presence?
Your argument is not with me, if you don,t believe what Jesus said, get onto him.
And it has nothing to do with science, it is my belief that Christs words over rides the doctrine of men.
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