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1 posted on 01/12/2014 11:54:16 AM PST by DavidThomas
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To: DavidThomas

IMO yes and he will only turn on the ignorant. Makes it tough to be Catholic right now.


2 posted on 01/12/2014 11:57:52 AM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: DavidThomas

Yes, Captain Obvious. He most certainly does.


3 posted on 01/12/2014 11:58:39 AM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (Have a wonderful day!)
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To: DavidThomas

The more that governments and society take care of the needy, the less the church has to expend on those obligations.

It’s the reverse side of capitalism. Save your money by having government do the work.


4 posted on 01/12/2014 11:59:08 AM PST by gortklattu (God knows who is best, everybody else is making guesses - Tony Snow)
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To: DavidThomas

Yes, Captain Obvious. He most certainly does.

Next question, please.


5 posted on 01/12/2014 12:03:06 PM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (Have a wonderful day!)
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To: DavidThomas
the most powerful intellectual system since Christianity

Shaking my head. Since when did envy merit being called an intellectual system, much less a powerful one.

6 posted on 01/12/2014 12:05:38 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: DavidThomas; Salvation

bookmark & ping ...


7 posted on 01/12/2014 12:10:38 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: DavidThomas
A friend of my mom was a nun In Brazil. Oh yeh....pure Marxist.

We are supposed to sell what we have and give it to the wanting...

Of course, Catholics have been supporting her all her life.

8 posted on 01/12/2014 12:12:14 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: DavidThomas

It’s a mistake to criticize a Pope’s pronouncements. It’s sort of like Bill O’Reilly challenging the Pope to “come on the Factor” and defend himself.


9 posted on 01/12/2014 12:14:31 PM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: DavidThomas

Does Francis have a Marxism problem?

No, he does not.

“Ultimately, many believed Jesus was the one who had come to deliver them from the Roman oppressors. And yet others said, “Isn’t this the son of a carpenter?”

So too, many have misunderstood who this bouncer-turned-cardinal-turned-pope is. Some believe he has come to “at last” set the Church free from the patriarchal oppression of past popes. Others say he is the new champion of Liberation Theology.

Some say a conservative, others a liberal, still others a Marxist or one of the Communists.

But when Jesus asked who do you say that I am? Peter replied, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God.”2

Who, really, is Pope Francis? In his own words, “I am a son of the Church.”

PREPARING FOR PASSION

After Jesus entered Jerusalem and the din of praise simmered, His true mission began to be revealed—to the dismay of the people. His first act was to cleanse the temple, overturning the tables of the money-changers and seats of the sellers. The very next thing?

The blind and the lame approached him in the temple area, and he cured them. (Matt 21:14)

After being elected, Pope Francis set about preparing his first Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium. In it, the Holy Father likewise began turning over the tables of the money-changers, attacking “an economy [that] kills” and the “dictatorship of an impersonal economy lacking a truly human purpose.”4 His words, based on the Church’s social doctrine, were an indictment particularly of “unbridled consumerism” and a corrupt stock exchange system that has created “a new tyranny” and a “deified market”, “a new idolatry of money” where “ethics has come to be viewed with a certain scornful derision.”5

His accurate and stinging depiction of the imbalance in wealth and power immediately (and predictably) drew the anger and ire of those who had only applauded him weeks before.

As for the Pope, he continued to shun opulence, choosing instead to be with the people.

I prefer a Church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a Church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security. —POPE FRANCIS, Evangelii Gaudium, n. 49

It was after His entry into Jerusalem, also, that Jesus taught the “greatest commandment”: to “love the Lord, your God, with all your heart… and your neighbour as yourself.”6 Likewise, the Holy Father made “love of neighbour” through service to the poor and evangelization central themes of his Exhortation.

But after exhorting the people to live the great commandments, Jesus did something else seemingly out of character: he publicly denounced the Scribes and Pharisees in no uncertain terms calling them “hypocrites… blind guides… whitewashed tombs…” and took them to task for seeking titles,7 keeping silent,8 and self-indulgence.9

Likewise, the gentle Pope Francis has also boldly challenged those who have lost the meaning of authentic Christian love, most especially the clergy. He has admonished those who are “obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.”10 He has criticized religious and clergy for buying new vehicles encouraging them to “choose a more humble one.”11 He has lamented those who take “over the space of the Church” for “programmes of self-help and self-realization” and12 churchmen with a “business mentality, caught up with management, statistics, plans and evaluations whose principal beneficiary is not God’s people but the Church as an institution.”13 He has called out the “worldliness” of the Church that leads to “complacency and self-indulgence.”14 He has framed homilists who do not properly prepare their sermons as being “dishonest and irresponsible” and even “a false prophet, a fraud, a shallow impostor.”15 He described those who promote and imbibe clericalism as “little monsters.”16 And, as for titles, Francis, in an effort to curb careerism in the Church, has abolished the honor of “Monsignor” for secular priests under the age of 65.17 Last, the Holy Father is planning to renovate the Curia, which no doubt, will upset the balance of power that has built-up over years among many “career Catholics.”

http://www.markmallett.com/blog/francis-and-the-coming-passion-of-the-church

The entire article is well worth the read. ;-)


10 posted on 01/12/2014 12:21:27 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: DavidThomas

Capitalism without God is just as bad as Socialism without God.

This is the root cause of many of our problems since the cultural revolution of the 1960’s.

The Pope is speaking on this just as JP2 called out Communism for its failures.


12 posted on 01/12/2014 12:28:02 PM PST by crusher2013
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To: DavidThomas

This is the first article I have read where the author has some idea of what Marxism was and is. All the others especially those who won’t read the article and respond to the headline and especially that much worshipped radio blabbermouth who declared that what the Pope expressed is “pure Marxism” speak out of nothing more or less but pure ignorance.


13 posted on 01/12/2014 12:30:49 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: DavidThomas

Somehow “income” is like the money on a collection plate, no one knows exactly where it comes from or what it took to produce it. The only question is how/who to “redistribute” this strange stuff called “income”.


14 posted on 01/12/2014 12:37:52 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: DavidThomas
Capitalism is so powerful, it is the root of all realty. Philosophers call the study of reality metaphysics and Marx’s metaphysics can be defined in two words: Economic determinism. All history, political systems, ideas, morality, religion, elections, laws, war and vast amounts of other human behavior are guided by economics.

Statements like this mean the writer s a philosophical quack. Capitalism is not God.

Capitalism is an economic system. It is not the root of reality. Saying otherwise proves you don't know what metaphysics is.

15 posted on 01/12/2014 12:43:00 PM PST by Bayard
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To: DavidThomas

Capitalism is a political philosophy that privileges and promotes policies which benefit capital. Why anyone would worship that is mind-boggling to me.


18 posted on 01/12/2014 1:05:45 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: DavidThomas

No, there have been many articles that this assertion is incorrect.


21 posted on 01/12/2014 1:35:23 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: DavidThomas

No. He’s heavily influenced by Communion & Liberation, an Italian movement made up mostly of older academics and wealthy leftists, so he’s probably heavily skewed left - but he’s not a Marxist.

The thing that bothers me most about him is that he seems very government friendly. That is, most of the theft he complains about is done by governments in league with companies or wealthy individuals, such as Michelle Obama, who contracted her college buddy for the “Obamacare” website - a woman whose Canadian company had already been excluded from doing business with the Canadian government because of their screw-ups and overbilling. But the Pope will never notice that.

His problem is not that he’s a Marxist, but that he’s firmly stuck in the late 80s. This was a recovering time for the Church, after VII, but not a good time. He needs to move on.


22 posted on 01/12/2014 1:56:26 PM PST by livius
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To: DavidThomas
There are two errors in this article.

1)Materialist philosophy is not the creation of the "proletariat," who historically have been too busy just making a living to engage in such intellectual abstraction. It is the creation of middle class or even wealthy intellectuals who have never had to worry about making a living.

2)The idea of the non-owning laboring classes being the force of teleological progress in history has long since given way to a sort of racial mysticism, in which the more melanin one possesses, the higher one's place in the hierarchy of the oppressed. Regardless of wealth or poverty, Asians are thus considered to the left of whites, Hispanics to the left of Asians, and Blacks as the absolute pinnacle of revolutionary action. Even illiterate Biblical Fundamentalists who are Black are considered to the left of Marx, to the left of Castro, to the left of Mao, to the left of Enver Hoxha. There is certainly no ridicule of Black religiosity on the Left, though granted, the Black clergy for the past few decades has shown no evidence of still believing in supernatural realities to begin with.

26 posted on 01/12/2014 2:44:15 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: DavidThomas
In my opinion and mine alone, the Pope promulgates Liberation Theology that replaces the conviction of the Holy Spirit to move one to donate above and beyond the tithe in favor of forced redistribution. Now I'm not the brightest crayon in the box but that sounds pretty Marxist to me. Even those who have no religious or training in morality can be drawn into this anticapitalism. Take Barrack for example. Christian in name only [Having a form of godliness but denying the power there of, in other words a pretender) but decidedly very Marxist and suffers from either Che or Fidel envy. He learned his Liberation Theology and racism from Jeremiah Wright. Jeremiah Wright correctly teaches racism and class warfare since these are rooted in Liberation Theology and teaches nothing more than hate, envy and victim hood. Barrack eats this stuff for every meal. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he for where your heart is there is your treasure ( the most important motivation in your life).
27 posted on 01/12/2014 3:15:54 PM PST by cashless (Obama told us he would side with Muslims if the political winds shifted in an ugly direction. Ready?)
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To: DavidThomas; Colonel_Flagg
What riled some conservatives was Francis’ critique of Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” and in EG 54, he questions “trickle-down” economics. Translations also matter and despite the fact that these translations come from the Vatican’s website, some maintain these passages have been mistranslated in English. Regardless and more importantly, none of this makes Francis a Marxist. However, if Francis wants to completely disassociate himself from Liberation Theology, I would advise against suggesting profits lead to some sort of exclusion (alienation?). This language slightly concerns me, but I say this cautiously because again, translation may be an issue. (We historians of thought recognize the thorny task of interpreting the ideas of someone else. Language is just one obstacle.)

Of course Francis is not a Marxist. Those who claim otherwise focus only on specific parts of a broader message and mistakenly associate Marxism with anti-Capitalism. I hope the first half of this essay showed Marxism is more than a criticism of capitalism. Francis does not preach revolution, a communist political system or atheism. In reality, the above-cited passages are just a few paragraphs from an eighty-four page document. And the Catholic Church, long before Marx, long before Liberation Theologians, dedicated itself to serving the poor. In another essay, I showed that Marx was shaped by Christian doctrine, so concordance between Marx and Francis are symptomatic of Christian influence on Marx, not vice versa. Even if I don’t like some of the concepts he employs, Francis’ ends are consistent with the Gospel and his means are not Marxist.

IBTPWM

29 posted on 01/12/2014 3:46:10 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: DavidThomas

France has a French problem.


30 posted on 01/12/2014 4:01:02 PM PST by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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