Posted on 01/03/2014 8:59:21 PM PST by matthewrobertolson
Protestants opposed contraception until the 1930 Lambeth Conference. After this, positions changed. So, did the Bible change, or did they?
... and neither has most of the world. Has nothing to do with the RCC. It is hosted by the Archbishop of Canterbury (Church of England) every 10 years for the bishops of the worldwide Anglican communion. The AoC is the titular head, i.e., 1st among equals, of all of the Anglican Archbishops around the world. Well, that is not quite right either - there are splinter groups of Anglicans, and more forming all the time, that not longer recognize episcopal oversight from Canterbury.
Vlad, that same reasoning, with your answer, condones condom use.
Baptists are not a branch of Lutherans, lol. And, Count Nikolas von Zinzendorf was not a leading light of Lutheranism, but he was of the Moravians. Moravians and Lutherans have come to an understanding in America, at least. Maybe that explains some of the confusion, but depending upon the variety of Baptist, Lutherans are regarded as almost Catholic, that’s why I found it amusing. Even knowing about von Zinzendorf says to me that you’ve spent some time here, in the vicinity of Winston-Salem, or know people from here. It’s not common knowledge elsewhere.
post reply to me:
kinda like celibacy (sp)
but the conscious decision is still the same made by me. I decide: put on a rubber. withdrawl, thats the sex stuff. How bout office stuff. i find the morals easier to hide. (injecting office morals here) do i answer the phone when the undesirable calls. i choose to answer the phone. it’s what i do. or what i do not do. i suffer the consequences for my choices.
I think your characterization of Catholics vs Protestants is both inaccurate and unwarranted.
From wikipedia....
The Catholic Church teaches that "human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception."[10] Accordingly, it opposes procedures whose purpose is to destroy an embryo or fetus for whatever motive (even before implantation), but admits acts, such as chemotherapy or hysterectomy of a pregnant woman who has cervical cancer, which indirectly result in the death of the fetus.
Apart from indicating in its canon law[18] that automatic excommunication such as that laid down for procurement of a completed abortion does not apply to women who abort because of a direct threat to the life of a mother if her pregnancy continues or indeed of any grave fear or grave inconvenience, the Catholic Church assures the possibility of forgiveness for women who have had an abortion without any such attenuation. Pope John Paul II wrote:
"I would now like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly. If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and is peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.[19]
Many, and in some countries most, Catholics disagree with the position promulgated by the Church; the views of these people range from allowing exceptions in a generally anti-abortion position, to complete acceptance of abortion.[20][21][22]
Catholics
In a 1995 survey, 64% of U.S. Catholics said they disapproved of the statement that "abortion is morally wrong in every case".[39] On the other hand, a 2013 survey by the Pew Research Center found that, whatever views they held on whether abortion should be legal, 53% of white Catholics in the United States considered abortion morally wrong, as did 64% of Hispanic Catholics. Among Hispanic Catholics, this percentage did not vary significantly between those who went to Mass at least once a week and those who did not, but there was a considerable difference in the case of white Catholics, with 74% of those who went to Mass at least once a week declaring having an abortion to be immoral, as compared with 40% of those whose religious practice was laxer.[67] A 2008 survey found that 65% of American Catholics identified themselves as "pro-choice", but also found that 76% of these "pro-choice" Catholics believed that abortion should be significantly restricted.[68] In the same year some 58% of American Catholic women felt that they did not have to follow the abortion teaching of their bishop.[69] Only 22% of U.S. Catholics held that abortion should be illegal in all cases.[70]
A 1996 survey found that 72% of Australian Catholics say that the decision to have an abortion "should be left to individual women and their doctors."[39]
I don't think the Bible says anything about contraception.
The Southern Baptists are against abortion. They allow contraception methods that prevent conception. And they allow for abortion to save the life of the mother. And since God gave man dominion over the earth and responsibility for social justice on earth, that would seem to be within our authority.
From the same wikipedia article...
Southern Baptist Convention
During the 1971 Southern Baptist Convention, the delegates passed a resolution recognizing that "Christians in the American society today are faced with difficult decisions about abortion", stating that laws should recognize the "sanctity of human life, including fetal life", and calling upon Southern Baptists to work for laws allowing abortion in extreme cases such as rape, severe fetal deformity, and the health of the mother.[33] The stance was described in the media as "hedging" on abortion and a resolution opposing all abortions was defeated.[34] W. Barry Garrett wrote in the Baptist Press, "Religious liberty, human equality and justice are advanced by the [Roe v. Wade] Supreme Court Decision."[35]
Today, the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, opposes elective abortion except to save the life of the mother.[36] The Southern Baptist Convention calls on Southern Baptists to work to change the laws in order to make abortion illegal in most cases.[37] Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission has said that he believes abortion is more damaging than anything else, even poverty.[38]
I think your characterization of Catholics vs Protestants is both inaccurate and unwarranted.
1). Abortion has been practiced thousands of years. It is known to have been done in Greece and China well before the birth of Christ. It has Bernard fairly ubiquitous throughout human history. It predates any effective contraceptive practice by thousands of years.
2). I have also read where “the pill” can at times serve to contribute to spontaneous abortion in instances when contraception is not achieved.
I agree that the availability of contraceptive methods has contributed to the increased sexual activity outside marriage and contributed to the increase in abortions and its legalization.
You know, it's obvious that you are chumming for hits on your blog with the provocative label of "Answering Protestants" as well as the history of your posting threads that are meant to stir up the Protestant vs. Catholic divide. Jim, in his generosity and in the interest of making Free Republic a site where religious as well as political views can be debated among Conservatives, allows this kind of thing to go on, and your peeps sure aren't shy about taking advantage of that generosity. It would just be nice if you could do a little historical search of the archives so you aren't starting up discussions that have already been beat to death. It's kinda boring.
Why say something that you have to know is false? Not "ALL" other Christian denominations support "baby killing" through abortion OR other birth control methods that do that. That is flat out wrong.
Do you think that saying this will somehow convince pro-life Protestants to leave their churches for the Roman Catholic one? That is delusional. IF someone goes to a church that isn't overtly pro-life in its statement of faith, then that is something they can work on from the inside to change. THAT should be the ideal, not some contrived gimmick that hopes to sour a Christian against his denomination hoping he'll flee to Catholicism because they claim a consistent viewpoint on the subject. Was the Reformation about that or was it about all the other areas where Catholicism stopped being orthodox? Sorry, it'll take more than that to sway us.
Actually all current non Catholic churches are branches of Luther — he was the first non-catholic. I did not say that baptists were a branch of Lutherans. only he might have been Lutheran at the time because he was maybe born that way (not Holy Roman Empire Cathodic) there wasn’t much else at the time he was born. How bout that winston salem connection to von zinzendorf. i visted the buildings and they are nice, there is a restaurant. ther is no restuarnt at the the orignal moravian site in pa
Moravians in America
The Moravians first came to America during the colonial period. In 1735 they were part of General Oglethorpe’s philanthropic venture in Georgia. Their attempt to establish a community in Savannah did not succeed, but they did have a profound impact on the young John Wesley who had gone to Georgia during a personal spiritual crisis. Wesley was impressed that the Moravians remained calm during a storm that was panicking experienced sailors. He was amazed at people who did not fear death, and back in London he worshiped with Moravians in the Fetter Lane Chapel. There his “heart was strangely warmed.”
Bethlehem 1754After the failure of the Georgia mission, the Moravians were able to establish a permanent presence in Pennsylvania in 1741, settling on the estate of George Whitefield. Moravian settlers purchased 500 acres to establish the settlement of Bethlehem in 1741. Soon they bought the 5,000 acres of the Barony of Nazareth from Whitefield’s manager, and the two communities of Bethlehem and Nazareth became closely linked in their agricultural and industrial economy.
Other settlement congregations were established in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Maryland. They built the communities of Bethlehem, Nazareth, Lititz, and Hope. They also established congregations in Philadelphia and on Staten Island in New York.All were considered frontier centers for the spread of the gospel, particularly in mission to the Native Americans.Bethlehem was the center of Moravian activity in colonial America. i think your WaSau bakn was a ban from that family.
Amen! Jesus knows His sheep and they know Him.
Good point!
Well, no. Moravians, the Unitas Fratrum, precede Luther by over a century. Followers of Jan Hus, the Hussites from whom the Moravians descended, are earlier still. Then, you have the Waldensians, earlier still.
So, even the Roman Catholic Church has to admit that some things are the couple's business - between them and God - and not the church's?
You're right, it is/was. Its design is to drive a wedge between pro-life Christians and their denomination. It's an attempt to persuade them that ONLY the Roman Catholic Church has consistency on this subject (though only a minority actually follows the church's dictates) and that this one issue is enough to conclude that it must be right about everything else. We know that is false and will not fall for such a blatant ruse.
A fine statement to be followed by a blatant contradiction of the facts.
I hope it's due to gross ignorance rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive, but there a bare minimum of two abortions caused by the most common contraceptives in use for each invasive abortion performed in this country (most sources say three to five depending on the age of the person using the drugs).
Just read the package insert and you know that abortificient action is the primary function of "the pill" and similar formulations. Anyone who can't even read the material that is by law distributed with contraceptives is deliberately hiding from the truth because it doesn't suit their personal little bubble.
People who rely on "the pill" and similar formulations can pretend they're against abortion all they like but they're lying to their self and others when they do so. They're may well object to invasive abortion but they wholeheartedly approve of quiet murder with chemicals.
They're like people who would decry Nazis shooting Jews but call murdering them with Zyclon-B a matter of personal choice or "Christian Liberty".
I made no specific reference to Protestants, if you review my statement.
Kindly spare me your mind reading. It isn't working.
We know that is false and will not fall for such a blatant ruse."
Ah, stating facts is a "ruse". That's a new low.
Particularly when included in a mind reading exercise attributing motives not in evidence to the individual who posted the article as well as to others.
The slippery slop[e to liberalism. They may mouth the words of Conservatism but the evidence is there for all to see. There may be some that disagree with abortion/ ABC, but as a whole, no.
Genesis 3:1 Now the snake was the most cunning* of all the wild animals that the LORD God had made. He asked the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You shall not eat from any of the trees in the garden’?”
Can you point to evidence of Jesus appointing women pastors/ preachers and permitting same sex unions. http://praisehouston.com/1430711/woman-sues-church-over-gay-marriage/
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