Posted on 06/15/2013 7:50:38 PM PDT by marshmallow
It’s St. Sebastian’s Angels all over again. But much worse. In Rome! A gay hookup site specifically tailored for priests and seminarians in ROME! Good Heavens what is to become of us?:
It is not easy to talk about some things, but Pope Francis’ statement of a gay lobby in the Catholic Church draws waves. As the Catholic writer, Vittorio Messori made known, there is a page on the Internet called Venerabilis which is run by a fraternity of Homo-Sensitive Roman Catholic Priests.
(Excerpt) Read more at veneremurcernui.wordpress.com ...
Oh really?
What about
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
is so hard to understand?
Oh, wait a minute, let me guess.....
That's not how the allegedly infallible magisterium has interpreted the passage.
Do tell, then, just what is your allegedly infallible magisteriums interpretation of the passage that allows them to disobey the clear command and directive of Scripture?
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."
There's much more there --- the link will take you to the Catechism in context.
God bless you.
mm: ““When Catholics blow off the issue of a priest who has molested children with *We’re all sinners*, and *Sin in his life doesn’t affect his duties as a priest as long as the priests intent is right*. it’s easy enough to get that idea.”
vlad : “Except that has never happened. Ever. You’re just making it up out of thin air.”
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For your reading pleasure.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3026316/posts?page=59#59
Here, particularly posts 20, 29,:
Gay activists with dirty hands at St. Patrick’s Cathedral are denied entry
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3017535/posts
Another thread...
Uganda priest ostracized for publicizing clergy sex abuse
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3016330/posts
Where does the change take place, and what is the change?
You wrote:
“Where does the change take place,”
Death and the Personal Judgment.
“and what is the change?”
When the Final Theosis is completed.
I guess I'm just not following the issue here. Doesn't God give all of us the free will to obey or disobey Him? Why is it different here?
“Where does the change take place,”
Death and the Personal Judgment.
“and what is the change?”
When the Final Theosis is completed.
Nope...Can't happen...The Wedding takes place before that Judgment you are looking forward to...And there will be no tares in the Wedding...
It just doesn't work when you try to line the bible up with your theology...You have to line your theology up with the bible...
You wrote:
“Nope...Can’t happen...The Wedding takes place before that Judgment you are looking forward to...And there will be no tares in the Wedding...”
The banquet is perpetual celebration for all time. It will not end when the saved enter Heaven.
“It just doesn’t work when you try to line the bible up with your theology...You have to line your theology up with the bible...”
The theology - which is from God Himself - and the Bible - which is from God Himself line up perfectly. They always do.
No, but it just might be the most ironic post in the history of FR.
That's more nonsense...You'll never find anything remotely close to that in the scriptures...Your religion developed its own theology and most of the time it can't find scripture to back it up but, oh well...Who needs scripture...Just make it up and go with it...
I guess I would say that if even the Church states that it remains largely unexplained then we probably shouldn't make any conclusions or generalizations ourselves. The bottom line is we just don't know for sure.
You pretty much supported my point - create an unnatural setting/situation and the unnatural will tend to occur. Requiring celibacy of all priests and nuns, creates the environment for homosexual/lesbian liaisons.
The Boy Scouts are more likely to attract predatory homosexuals because the young boys are abundantly available - but the leaders can, and should, be married men. Similar environment but different dynamics.
I have trouble understanding why celibacy is a requirement since it was never required in the Bible - it was one man's opinion and he even stated it was his opinion and not part of the divine revelations that drove his messages. On the flip side, it is mentioned that the teachers/preachers should be upstanding, married, family men who demonstrated head-of-houshold/spiritual leadership because it made them better suited to teach others how to become the same.Hope to have more conversations as the topics arise.
you wrote:
“That’s more nonsense...”
No, what I said is true.
“You’ll never find anything remotely close to that in the scriptures...”
Actually you do. We have known of this since the time of Isaiah 25:6-8.
“Your religion developed its own theology and most of the time it can’t find scripture to back it up but, oh well...”
No, the real issue here is your own anti-Catholicism.
“Who needs scripture...”
Apparently, not you.
“Just make it up and go with it...”
No, the one making things up.
You can learn more by reading this: https://bible.org/article/messianic-banquet-and-eschatology-matthew
Now you are getting pretty desperate...Your religion doesn't have a clue about the wedding of the Bride (the church) and the Groom (Jesus)...
So you send me to a site, written by whom???
(from the site)
The Bible.org Team is comprised of gifted Evangelical Christians.
One of the 'great' Catholic apologists sends me to an Evangelical site to teach me the Catholic position on Bride of Christ and the Wedding???
But here's something from that site YOU could learn from...
The contribution of Isaiah to Jewish expectations of the Messianic Banquet would have been much broader than a single future eschatological event. The Banquet would have been understood from Isaiah to be metaphorical of a description of the entire future messianic age. It would include the following elements: Yahweh’s faithfulness to his covenant with Israel; bountiful provisions and blessings in the land of Israel; repentance, obedience and the restoration of the remnant of Israel; the reign of the Messiah on earth; a gathering of the dispersed Israelites back to their homeland; the inclusion of all nations within the blessings offered at Jerusalem; the resurrection of the righteous dead; the end of death; the end of war; and the judgment of the enemies of Yahweh and of Israel. While the righteous remnant will enjoy the bountiful provisions of the messianic age, the enemies of Israel will be destroyed. The inclusion of other nations give a strong universal emphasis to the eschatological hopes in Isaiah. Other nations are invited to participate in the blessings of the messianic age, however they maintain their national identities just as Israel retains hers.
God is not done with Israel...
Like a bad case of diarrhea.
“Have Catholics never read the Bible?”
Yes, they have - and they understand it too.
Uh..yea...they wrote it (New Testament), they preserved it (under persecution), they compiled it (which books were in...and those that were not the word of God), and they taught it when most of the world was illiterate.
From the Letter to the Smyrnaeans by St. Ignatius of Antioch: ca:107 AD (undisputededly either a disciple of the Apostle John, or at the least a student of his teachings)
Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid.
The Apostles were co-founders with Christ of the Catholic Church (Christ’s visible church on earth). Therefore, yes, the scriptures were inspired by the HS and scribed by various Apostles and disciples. Truth has no pride.
“Do Catholics know what The Creator required to be done to those that practice abomination?” Not sure what that has to do with MY comments.
You brought up the concept "unnatural" after I mentioned that homosexuals find opportunities with boys when they become summer activities directors, youth ministers, Boy Scout leaders, and the like. These settings/situations (plus boys' schools, football training camps, lumber camps, offshore oil rigs, prisons, and the military) will predictably bring out homosexual behavior in those so inclined.
But it's hard to see how they are "unnatural" settings. They are single-sex: but I wouldn't really want women and men mixed in those settings, either.
And even if it were possible, it would be undesirable to abolish or minimize all these settings. Just as one example, I think the military should be an all-male setting, and I also think single-sex primary and secondary schools are desirable.)
The exception I would make is this: I don't think people who are tempted by same-sex desires should be in same-sex environments. They should --- for their own moral good --- stay away from the military and seminaries, just as an alcoholic should stay away from liquor stores.
Are we in agreement on that?
So then we come to the separate question of celibacy. You say that "Requiring celibacy of all priests and nuns, creates the environment for homosexual/lesbian liaisons."
I say, "Yes, for those who are homosexuals or lesbians --- those who have hat kind of sexual interest pattern. They should stay out of the priesthood and the religious orders." But there's no evidence at all that celibacy causes homosexuality: otherwise, we wouldn't want our own kids to be sexually abstinent (celibate until marriage) --- out of fear that if they're abstinent, they'll turn perverted. Which is certainly not the case.
You said, "Boy Scout leaders can, and should, be married men. Similar environment but different dynamics." That looks like a sensible point to me, so I'll agree with you there. But being married won't necessarily curb sex abuse. Think Jerry Sandusky- Roman Polanski- John Maynard Keynes- or the Boy Scouts' fat files on dicey married scoutmasters.
The fact is that a marriage vow -- like a priestly vow --- is the perfect cover for an abuser. Think of Oscar Wilde, married, father of two children, and out all hours &#$%ing stable hands, young guys in pubs, and the rent boys of Victorian London.
"I have trouble understanding why celibacy is a requirement since it was never required in the Bible - it was one man's opinion and he even stated it was his opinion and not part of the divine revelations that drove his messages."
I'll make a distinction here that may not make much difference to you, though it addresses the theological question. Celibacy is not required for Holy Orders in the Catholic Church:
So in all those cases you have married men who have become Catholic clergy, illustrating the fact that celibacy is not an essential part of the priesthood.
That leaves the question: then why does the Latin Church still have,by and large, a celibate priesthood, even though it's not considered essential to the priesthood??
Well, if a man has a vocation --- a call from God --- to be celibate and ordained, he should be a priest in the Latin Church. If he doesn't have a vocation to be celibate, maybe he should be an ordained Deacon or an priest in the Catholic Eastern Rite.
So it's a vocational option. Do you see that "some" people experience a call to be celibate? If that is their vocation, don't you think they should have that option?
BTW, I just baked a lattice-top cherry pie. I am now going to have a piece without further ado. (I'd give you some, but I can't seem to jam it into this here 'puter machine thingie...) A cheery cherry good day to you!
So, the Catholic magisterium is free to disobey God?
Then how are they assured of infallibility?
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