Posted on 04/28/2013 8:56:28 AM PDT by markomalley
When anti-Catholic ecumenical atrocities take place, Catholic bishops should act.
Here is an example which calls for consequences.
From WTAX in Kentucky:
Kentucky woman ordained as priest in defiance of Roman Catholic Church [Note either the carelessness or the bias? She was not ordained as anything.]
By Mary Wisniewski
LOUISVILLE, Kentucky (Reuters) – In an emotional ceremony filled with tears and applause, a 70-year-old Kentucky woman was ordained a priest [No. She went through a fake ceremony.] on Saturday as part of a dissident group operating outside of official Roman Catholic Church authority. [Liberals often use the word
When anti-Catholic ecumenical atrocities take place, Catholic bishops should act.
Here is an example which calls for consequences.
From WTAX in Kentucky:
Kentucky woman ordained as priest in defiance of Roman Catholic Church [Note either the carelessness or the bias? She was not ordained as anything.]
By Mary Wisniewski
LOUISVILLE, Kentucky (Reuters) – In an emotional ceremony filled with tears and applause, a 70-year-old Kentucky woman was ordained a priest [No. She went through a fake ceremony.] on Saturday as part of a dissident group operating outside of official Roman Catholic Church authority. [Liberals often use the word "official" as code. Watch for code.]
Rosemarie Smead is one of about 150 women around the world who have decided not to wait for the Roman Catholic Church to lift its ban on women priests, but to be ordained and start their own congregations.
In an interview before the ceremony, Smead said she is not worried about being excommunicated from the Church – the fate of other women ordained outside of Vatican law.
“It has no sting for me,” said Smead, a petite, gray-haired former Carmelite nun with a ready hug for strangers. [What slop.] “It is a Medieval bullying stick the bishops used to keep control over people and to keep the voices of women silent. I am way beyond letting octogenarian men tell us how to live our lives.” [Wayyyy beyond.]
The ordination of women as priests, along with the issues of married priests and birth control, represents one of the big divides between U.S. Catholics and the Vatican hierarchy. [And it is the writer's objective to widen the divide. Note also how the "issues" are not easily related.] Seventy percent of U.S. Catholics believe that women should be allowed to be priests, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll earlier this year.
The former pope, Benedict XVI, reaffirmed the Catholic Church’s ban on women priests ["ban on women priests" requires the premise that there is such a thing as a woman priest. There isn't.] and warned that he would not tolerate disobedience by clerics on fundamental teachings. Male priests have been stripped of their holy orders [No. That's impossible. Holy Orders confer an indelible mark on the soul that can't be "stripped". They have been "stripped" of permission to function as a priest.] for participating in ordination ceremonies for women.
In a statement last week, Louisville Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz called the planned ceremony by the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests a “simulated ordination” in opposition to Catholic teaching.
“The simulation of a sacrament carries very serious penal sanctions in Church law, and Catholics should not support or participate in Saturday’s event,” Kurtz said.
The Catholic Church teaches that it has no authority to allow women to be priests because Jesus Christ chose only men as his apostles. Proponents of a female priesthood said Jesus was acting only according to the customs of his time.
They also note that he chose women, like Mary Magdalene, as disciples, and that the early Church had women priests, deacons and bishops. [Which is not true.]
[HERE, folks, is a big problem....] The ceremony, held at St. Andrew United Church of Christ in Louisville, was attended by about 200 men and women. Many identified themselves to a Reuters reporter as Catholics, but some declined to give their names or their churches.
[...]
The rest of the piece is rubbish.
Here’s the bottom line. Antics like this should have consequences for ecumenical dialogue.
The women’s ordination thing is silliness. It is a circus.
A Protestant church hosted the circus. They gave the Catholic Church the finger.
There should be consequences.
We either take ecumenism seriously or we don’t. If we do – and I believe we must – we have to react strongly when ecumenical ideals are so grossly violated by Protestants who invite or permit these “women priest” ceremonies in their churches.
The most sacred rites of the Catholic Church are Holy Mass and ordination to Holy Orders.
They effectively trampled rites that we Catholics hold as sacred.
These silly Catholic women-priest supporters are committing sacrilege in simulating Mass and Orders.
However, the Protestants who host them are assisting in a mockery of our Holy Mass and a mockery of our priesthood.
For a long time progressivist Catholics were staging Jewish sedar meals in their churches. Some Jews were angered by this. We got the message from the Jews and stopped doing what was offensive to them.
By allowing this group of fakers into their churches, those Protestants accepted the premise that what those women play at is actually a Catholic ordination and a Mass.
How dare PROTESTANTS decide what a Catholic Mass is?
And if they respond, “Gee, we mean no disrespect. We are just giving space to this group”, then what they are doing is aiding a protest against the Catholic Church.
There is no way around this.
Protestants who give these fakers aid are either on their side, and thus support their claim that what they are doing really is an ordination and Mass, or in claiming not to be taking sides they are still giving support to an anti-Catholic protest.
Bishops have to take action when offensive, anti-Catholic things like this take place.
Upon hearing the news that this ceremony is going to take place (or has taken place), the local Catholic bishop must call the pastor of that Protestant parish and say, “I’m the Catholic Bishop. Do not allow this sacrilege to be committed in your church. You wouldn’t do this for a group of dissident Jews wanting to ordain rabbis, but we are Catholics so you don’t care what offense you give us. Until an apology is issued, don’t look for us to dialogue with you again.”
Then that Catholic bishop should call the head of the denomination and convey the same message.
Then that Catholic Bishop should an informative note to the USCCB’s ecumenical office, to the CDF and to the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity to let them know the facts of the sacrileges that took place and who helped them.
Then that Catholic bishop should call the press and give them his view about the offense the Protestants gave and the damage they inflicted on ecumenical dialogue.
True ecumenism does not consist in lying down and letting some other church kick you and define what Mass is for you, or say who can be ordained, or stick their “F-You” finger in your face by hosting these sacrilegious fakers."official" as code. Watch for code.]
Rosemarie Smead is one of about 150 women around the world who have decided not to wait for the Roman Catholic Church to lift its ban on women priests, but to be ordained and start their own congregations.
In an interview before the ceremony, Smead said she is not worried about being excommunicated from the Church – the fate of other women ordained outside of Vatican law.
“It has no sting for me,” said Smead, a petite, gray-haired former Carmelite nun with a ready hug for strangers. [What slop.] “It is a Medieval bullying stick the bishops used to keep control over people and to keep the voices of women silent. I am way beyond letting octogenarian men tell us how to live our lives.” [Wayyyy beyond.]
The ordination of women as priests, along with the issues of married priests and birth control, represents one of the big divides between U.S. Catholics and the Vatican hierarchy. [And it is the writer's objective to widen the divide. Note also how the "issues" are not easily related.] Seventy percent of U.S. Catholics believe that women should be allowed to be priests, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll earlier this year.
The former pope, Benedict XVI, reaffirmed the Catholic Church’s ban on women priests ["ban on women priests" requires the premise that there is such a thing as a woman priest. There isn't.] and warned that he would not tolerate disobedience by clerics on fundamental teachings. Male priests have been stripped of their holy orders [No. That's impossible. Holy Orders confer an indelible mark on the soul that can't be "stripped". They have been "stripped" of permission to function as a priest.] for participating in ordination ceremonies for women.
In a statement last week, Louisville Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz called the planned ceremony by the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests a “simulated ordination” in opposition to Catholic teaching.
“The simulation of a sacrament carries very serious penal sanctions in Church law, and Catholics should not support or participate in Saturday’s event,” Kurtz said.
The Catholic Church teaches that it has no authority to allow women to be priests because Jesus Christ chose only men as his apostles. Proponents of a female priesthood said Jesus was acting only according to the customs of his time.
They also note that he chose women, like Mary Magdalene, as disciples, and that the early Church had women priests, deacons and bishops. [Which is not true.]
[HERE, folks, is a big problem....] The ceremony, held at St. Andrew United Church of Christ in Louisville, was attended by about 200 men and women. Many identified themselves to a Reuters reporter as Catholics, but some declined to give their names or their churches.
[...]
The rest of the piece is rubbish.
Here’s the bottom line. Antics like this should have consequences for ecumenical dialogue.
The women’s ordination thing is silliness. It is a circus.
A Protestant church hosted the circus. They gave the Catholic Church the finger.
There should be consequences.
We either take ecumenism seriously or we don’t. If we do – and I believe we must – we have to react strongly when ecumenical ideals are so grossly violated by Protestants who invite or permit these “women priest” ceremonies in their churches.
The most sacred rites of the Catholic Church are Holy Mass and ordination to Holy Orders.
They effectively trampled rites that we Catholics hold as sacred.
These silly Catholic women-priest supporters are committing sacrilege in simulating Mass and Orders.
However, the Protestants who host them are assisting in a mockery of our Holy Mass and a mockery of our priesthood.
For a long time progressivist Catholics were staging Jewish sedar meals in their churches. Some Jews were angered by this. We got the message from the Jews and stopped doing what was offensive to them.
By allowing this group of fakers into their churches, those Protestants accepted the premise that what those women play at is actually a Catholic ordination and a Mass.
How dare PROTESTANTS decide what a Catholic Mass is?
And if they respond, “Gee, we mean no disrespect. We are just giving space to this group”, then what they are doing is aiding a protest against the Catholic Church.
There is no way around this.
Protestants who give these fakers aid are either on their side, and thus support their claim that what they are doing really is an ordination and Mass, or in claiming not to be taking sides they are still giving support to an anti-Catholic protest.
Bishops have to take action when offensive, anti-Catholic things like this take place.
Upon hearing the news that this ceremony is going to take place (or has taken place), the local Catholic bishop must call the pastor of that Protestant parish and say, “I’m the Catholic Bishop. Do not allow this sacrilege to be committed in your church. You wouldn’t do this for a group of dissident Jews wanting to ordain rabbis, but we are Catholics so you don’t care what offense you give us. Until an apology is issued, don’t look for us to dialogue with you again.”
Then that Catholic bishop should call the head of the denomination and convey the same message.
Then that Catholic Bishop should an informative note to the USCCB’s ecumenical office, to the CDF and to the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity to let them know the facts of the sacrileges that took place and who helped them.
Then that Catholic bishop should call the press and give them his view about the offense the Protestants gave and the damage they inflicted on ecumenical dialogue.
True ecumenism does not consist in lying down and letting some other church kick you and define what Mass is for you, or say who can be ordained, or stick their “F-You” finger in your face by hosting these sacrilegious fakers.
Now that is a useful comment. I thought we were talking about transexual Roman Catholic nuns.
Now if you want to discuss the Latvian Orthodox church....
“How many women did Christ ordain to the Priesthood?”
All of them, and all the men too, by virtue of making us all a peculiar people and a holy priesthood through joining His body. But does that mean a woman should be ordained as an elder to teach in a church? The scripture clearly forbids it.
Indeed, you are correct, the New Covenant did away with the need for the old levitical priesthood as all born-again believers are priests, whether male or female.
Speaking to Christians in general, the apostle Peter wrote:
“You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ... “
“But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.” I Peter 2:6, 9
In I Corinthians 14.34-35, St. Paul says that women should keep silent in church.
Now if you want to discuss the Latvian Orthodox church...
= = = = = = = = = = = = =
I tried BUT due to ‘kavorka’ etc, they rejected me.
Today that could be deemed as ‘prejudiced’????
I'll come right out and say, female pastors or priests when imposed organizationally make me very uncomfortable to the point of outright opposition. I've only had one close exposure, and that was via the church funeral service for the father of an old friend. I've in the past strayed from my Christian upbringing and have associated with “alternative” religious sorts including Wiccans. That woman was. I know the tropes, the gestures, the general vibe.
Then again, I also know women with very successful lay ministries, who have led many souls to Christ. One of them ended up with a regular meeting that could I suppose be regarded as a church. This was not imposed, it was through acclamation and consent. There is a distinction between the two to me, and a strong one.
Roman Catholics determine their own priesthood however. They do not permit female priests, this woman was acting in defiance of her church.
Simple as that. What is done in response won't be nearly so simple and clear-cut though. Witness the impulse to blame outsiders while not distancing themselves from the actual problem. It's a peculiar impulse that I've seen many times under differing circumstances, and I can't claim to understand it at all.
They should take such action against priests who homosexually rape children.
Good question. How did this become a Protestant issue?
How many MEN did Jesus ordain into priesthood?
Find me one verse of Scripture that shows that Jesus ordained ANYONE into ANY priesthood.
Are you being sarcastic?
The women were witnesses, martyrs and that role has always been open to women.
Priesthood is derived from the 12 Apostles, period. Plenty of others are witnesses, testes, martyrs, disciples. Even the word “apostle” is sometimes used more widely in the NT.
But the Twelve chosen apostles were a distinct group. Only to them did Jesus give the authority to govern (bind and loose sins, accompanied by ordination in John’s Gospel—he breathed on them and conferred the Holy Spirit explicitly) and preach with apostolic authority.
An honest Protestant will recognize a distinct role for the 12, distinct from other disciples and witnesses. We are all witnesses, we are not all ordained priests. We are all baptismal priests. We are all ministers, witnesses, martyrs, testes, testifiers.
If you don’t accept Catholic and Orthodox teaching on the derivation of bishops and priests from the Twelve, fine. But then you don’t believe in priesthood. Fine.
Preaching with apostolic authority is not the same as giving a testimony or witnessing. Jesus authorized the Twelve to lead His Ecclesia. If you are a Protestant, you derive a general ministry from that. Fine.
But Catholics derive from that the specific episcopacy and priesthood.
At the time of the Reformation all the Protestant Reformers explicitly rejected the concept of priesthood as derived from the Twelve. (Anglicans retained it initially, rejected it in the 1550s, then tried to claim it back in later centuries; too late).
Those who rejected the idea of priesthood have nothing to say to what qualifies a person as a priest.
And should butt out.
John 20:21-23.
Since you don’t like and don’t believe in priesthood, kindlly butt out of this discussion.
On this issue Protestants defined themselves knowingly and deliberately in the 16thc. All the Protestant Reformers rejected episcopacy, one of the few things they agreed on.
You made your bed, so lie in it.
You share with the UCC the rejection of ordained priesthood.
Which
is
the
issue
here.
The idea that all protestantism is like the UCC is like saying all Catholics are social justice commies.
Asbestos is not imputed.
Another person that I won’t join in with at church. Already will not sing for someone who outed himself as a homosexual and has songs (they aren’t hymns) in the OCP book.
BTW, pray for Archbishop Alexander Sample, our new Archbishop here in Oregon — that he might dissolve OCP.
(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." [JN 20:21-23]
Some of the worst and nastiest writing was the blanket use of the word Protestant to describe who you are angry at for this issue, just name the denomination, not almost all Christians on earth that aren’t Catholic as the villain in this little story.
The church this guy is annoyed at doesn’t even have a million members, his writing seems to be more of an attack on Christians in general in America, than an attack on the denomination that he is supposed to be angry at.
Priesthood is derived from the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass. Where the celebrant acts “in the persona of Christ” and that is why only unmarried males can be priests. The Eucharist is the center of all Catholic worship. It is the focal point of any Church. This is the great divide between Catholicism and every other brand of Christianity.
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