Posted on 03/19/2013 8:59:25 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
It has been suggested that it is a tragedy for Evangelicals to pray and fast regarding the new pope as called for by Rick Warren.
While it might not be an issue worthy of fasting over as it doesn’t look like most of the top contenders to the papal throne have themselves missed too many meals and won’t exactly be living in a state of self denial given their opulent surroundings should they get the job, offering up a quick prayer on the matter won’t hurt.
After all, the individual selected will play a significant role in steering that interpretation of the Christian faith closer towards true Biblical religion or further away into the assorted errors tempting all that call upon the name of the Lord in one fashion or the other.
What is so wrong with a Protestant praying for the selection of at least a level-headed Pope that adheres to the shared commonalities of Christian doctrine and respects the rights of existence and expression of those he disagrees with?
I guess there are those thinking the atrocities committed during the Thirty Years War by both sides were a good thing.
Nothing wins souls to your vision regarding Christ and His message like a good pillaging and the ravishing of a few unwilling maidens.
Some might ask the question why should Protestants, especially those of the lowly Baptist variety, enunciate an opinion as to the selection of a new Pope or elaborate an explanation as to why those of that particular theological perspective find the power and authority that ecclesiastical institution has asserted for itself as extra-Biblical and questionably dangerous.
Catholics have every right to select whomever they desire as their head honcho.
However, because that institution has assumed for itself a role beyond administering its own internal affairs and undertaken efforts to exert an influence on the world beyond its ornately decorated walls, in a free society those not belonging to this religious tradition have just as much right to speak out regarding the direction as to how this powerful world body might influence the way in which individuals are able to live their own lives and practice their own beliefs.
For though the way in which the Roman Catholic Church gets the message across might be more subtle than the way in which some Protestants do so, relying more on ceremony and glitz rather than a blunt in your face letting you know what they feel and believe regarding the issue often in a gruff and tactless manner, the opposition of the leadership to Protestantism is just as ingrained.
For example, Pope Benedict repeatedly emphasized throughout his pontificate that Protestant churches especially were not real churches and at best could only be thought of as errant theological associations.
No big deal, many not practiced in the art of discernment and worldview implication might conclude.
After all, everyone from the Pope down to the raving village atheist thinks the spiritual path they are journeying down is superior to all others.
However, one may need to stop to reflect for a moment what is being said here.
To the Protestant, the ideal that those of this persuasion endeavor to strive for can be found in Romans 10:13: “For whoseover shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
By this, it is believed that there is no mediator between God and man other than Christ Himself for those that believe Jesus as the only Begotten Son of God died in our place for our sins and rose from the dead so that those placing their faith solely in Him might have eternal life in Heaven.
However, official institutionalized Catholicism pretty much holds that their’s is the only game in town determining who it is that will be rewarded with the prize or gift of salvation.
This the organization does in part through its system of sacraments.
So what the Church is really saying when it denies communion to all but those on its own membership roles is not so much that we think it’s best if you participate in this solemn event with those that can better attest to the validity of your faith experience or worthiness of character but rather that you aren’t even a fellow Christian at all.
If the new pope has called for a new evangelization effort in areas where Protestantism has made inroads, unless the campaign is confined to targeting those that were previously Catholic with those born into Protestantism or who became Protestant from a non-Catholic orientation off limits, on what grounds do Catholics have to get jacked out of shape when Protestants sweep up disgruntled and easily persuaded Catholics?
One would hope that no one in their right mind would find the violent acrimony of the past where individuals on either side of the divide were often deprived of property, opportunity, and even their very lives all in Christ’s name a worthy situation to return to.
However, neither are Christians obligated to go out of their way refusing to admit that profound religious differences still exist that are better off left in place for the sake of the entire world at least until Christ Himself returns to set hearts and minds straight and to sort out the mess we as fallen human beings have made of this world.
After all, everyone from the Pope down to the raving village atheist thinks the spiritual path they are journeying down is superior to all others. However, one may need to stop to reflect for a moment what is being said here. To the Protestant, the ideal that those of this persuasion endeavor to strive for can be found in Romans 10:13: “For whoseover shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” By this, it is believed that there is no mediator between God and man other than Christ Himself for those that believe Jesus as the only Begotten Son of God died in our place for our sins and rose from the dead so that those placing their faith solely in Him might have eternal life in Heaven.
However, official institutionalized Catholicism pretty much holds that theirs is the only game in town determining who it is that will be rewarded with the prize or gift of salvation. This the organization does in part through its system of sacraments. So what the Church is really saying when it denies communion to all but those on its own membership roles is not so much that we think it’s best if you participate in this solemn event with those that can better attest to the validity of your faith experience or worthiness of character but rather that you aren’t even a fellow Christian at all....
You can speak all you want, but if you aren’t Catholic you have no sway on the Catholic church.
And why should you?
Do the Protestants listen to the Catholics on doctrine?
For the record I am a Baptist.
So what happens to the Great Commandment of Christ?
“Love one another as I have loved you.”
Just because my name might have the word, Catholic after it or your name might have the word, Baptist after it — does that cancel out Christ’s commandment to love one another?
Don’t we both love God above all things?
Don’t we both try to love our neighbor as ourselves?
“So what the Church is really saying when it denies communion to all but those on its own membership roles is not so much that we think it’s best if you participate in this solemn event with those that can better attest to the validity of your faith experience or worthiness of character but rather that you aren’t even a fellow Christian at all.”
I’m not interested in starting a Catholic vs. Protestant debate, as it’s my bed time and I have been sitting in front of the computer way too long today, so I will simply make a hit and run reply. My observation to this is that the author here demonstrates an obvious lack of understanding of Catholic sacramental theology; denial of the Eucharist to non-Catholics is not a statement that they are not Christians. For clarification I would suggest reading from a Catholic website such as Catholic Answers, as I have found in large part that non-Catholic Christians attempting to explain or refute Catholic teachings generally do not adequately understand it themselves. That’s my 2 cents.
Of course we strive to live God’s word and will.
All I am saying is that Protestants are hardly likely to garner the ear of the Catholic Church as far as changing doctrine.
Why would Francis listed to the Gay rights crowd and change doctrine to accommodate them?
I am too a member of the Southern Baptist church. I know I have no input in the Catholic religion, but I do pray the new Pope is a Godly man who stands by conservative doctrine, and serves our Lord Jesus Christ to the very best of his abilities.
I’m a Plain old Yankee Baptist, but I agree.
As a Messianic Jew I think the new Pope is a nice person. His background in Argentina working with the poor puts him among the saints. His actions so far sneaking out to mingle reminds me of the movie staring Anthony Quinn “Shoes Of The Fisherman”.
I think that’s a sentiment we can all share, regardless of which side of the aisle we find ourselves. Being a former Southern Baptist turned Catholic, I can safely say that I hold a special place in my heart for all those good ol’ Southern Baptists, who remain my favorite non-Catholic denomination ;-) Alright, I said I was going to bed. Have a good night, everyone.
This is also an incorrect statement about Catholic doctrine. The Roman Catholic Church does NOT deny communion to everyone but Roman Catholics. For example, an Orthodox Christian in good standing is allowed to receive communion at a Catholic parish (although oddly enough, the reverse is not true)
Ah yes, I forgot about the Orthodox. Thanks for correcting.
Sure, protestants can have all the opinions they want about him. It won’t do any more good than it does us Catholics, though. He’s there for the duration, and we have nothing to say about how he guides the Church.
**Why would Francis listed to the Gay rights crowd and change doctrine to accommodate them?**
I don’t believe he has.
I fear that things are so out of control in our world that no man can fix it. Only God can.
If all religions can join together, even keeping their own beliefs, what would be wrong with that?
I’m not as eloquent as you are, but like you said..we all need to love one another inspite of our differences.
It’s the only chance we have.
“So what the Church is really saying when it denies communion to all but those on its own membership roles is not so much that we think it’s best if you participate in this solemn event with those that can better attest to the validity of your faith experience or worthiness of character but rather that you aren’t even a fellow Christian at all.”
The author only sees an exclusion (like a woman excluded from a mens' club) but doesn't see the reason. Catholics take Christ at His Word...
1 Cor 11:23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.Exclusion from the Catholic celebration of the Eucharist is not an us vs them matter. It's a matter of protection from grave sin in accordance with Scripture.27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number [s]sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
We Unitarians don’t have opinions!
listed = listen
It is his to guide the church.
Not to cow to every sinner that ever crossed into the church.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.