Posted on 02/13/2013 4:44:23 AM PST by spirited irish
The Mormonism Research Ministry is a missionary/apologetics organization organized in 1979 to propagate the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to critically evaluate the differences between Mormonism and biblical Christianity. Of the many crucial differences, the Mormon rejection of the Genesis account of supernatural creation ex nihilo in favor of a naturalistic account is just one of many pressing differences.
MRM reveals that Joseph Smith taught that matter is eternal and the Mormon God Elohim had no power to create out of nothing. Elohim merely reorganized already present elements, which have no beginning or end and cannot be destroyed:
"Since Mormons believe that the elements are eternal, it follows that they deny the ex nihilo creation." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism 1:400).
From this it follows that a mere man can become God, as the great Mormon prophet Joseph Smith explains:
"It is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and suppose that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did... Here then, is eternal life to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priest to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one. . . . (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-47
)
The Mormon God is a creature from within creation (nature). In fact, Mormon scripture states that he is merely a physical, exalted man who lives on a planet near the great star Kolob where he and his wives busily procreate millions of spirit children who are sent into this material realm of suffering and evil to live according to the laws of the gospel and thereby earn their own godhood over their own planet:
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us." (D&C 310:22, Ed Decker, "The Lesser gods of Mormonism")
In the Genesis account the living, supernatural Triune God created all things ex-nihilo, or out of nothing. He is self-existent, eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. He is the sovereign Lord of the universe. He is the God of all creation. He is the God who stands outside of the space-time dimension, thus creation actually began before time came to be as God spoke life, soul/spirit, matter and all else out of nothing. The living, supernatural God is the First Cause of all things. (Psalm 33:6; John 1:3; Romans 4:17; Hebrews 11:3):
"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." Col. 1:16, 17
In the "Pagan Temptation," Christian scholar Thomas Molnar reports that the idea that matter is eternal is a pattern of thought stretching back to the ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, and Greeks in the West and in the East to the Upanishads:
"Matter is regarded as the opposite of God, equal to him or even greater in power, and thus absolutely evil. All of the great philosophers of Greece believed this....with the exception of Aristotle (and the materialists, of course.)" (P. 26)
In this way of thinking, everything somehow emerged out of either eternally existing matter as the ancients and Joseph Smith taught, or in contemporary terms from out of spontaneously-generated matter.
From the Babylonians forward, primordial matter has gone by many names. For example: divine One Substance, watery abyss, chaos, or void.
The Egyptian Sun-God Ra emerged (created himself) from out of Nu the divine One Substance (primordial matter) and then as Joseph Smith recounts, became God "by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one:"
"I came into being from primordial matter...I made all the forms under which I appeared by means of (or out of) the god-soul which I raised up out of Nu (i.e., the primeval abyss of water.)" (The Long War Against God, Dr. Henry Morris, p. 243
)
In all pagan systems that speak of pre-existent matter as "spirit," Molnar writes that spirit is not personal. It is neither male nor female. It does not live, think or speak; it merely is. The human soul therefore is not created in the spiritual image of the living God Who exists outside of the time-space dimension (nature) Who Spoke and revealed Himself to man, thus it follows that humans are neither male nor female and that,
"Thought, reflection, and discursive reason entered the world through humanity..." (p. 30)
This is naturalism or materialism, which is the belief taught by Joseph Smith that there is neither living supernatural God nor heavenly realm outside of the space-time dimension. There is only the natural dimension.
Materialism is held in common by pantheism and spiritualism and dates back to pagan antiquity and was or is taught by all non-Biblical but more specifically, non-Genesis account (creation ex nihilo) thought systems.
At the heart of ancient and contemporary naturalism is monism, which refers to the view that pre-existent or spontaneously generated matter is the Ultimate Substance of which the universe and all life are made, therefore as the ancient Hermetic magic formula decrees, "as above, so below," or all is one.
In his book, "The God of Sex: How Spirituality Defines Your Sexuality," Dr. Peter Jones writes that pagan monism,
"(is) a mystical, unitive experience, a state in which distinctions disappear and opposites are joined. Androgyny, on a sexual level, reflects and confirms such an experience." (ibid, p.79)
Writing during the student revolution of the 1960s, Francis Schaeffer saw a transformation of consciousness permeating and overtaking the Western mindset, moving it away from the Christian ideal to the pagan model:
"Some forms of homosexuality today...are a philosophic expression...a denial of the antithesis. It has led in this case to an obliteration of the distinction between man and woman. So the male and the female as complimentary partners are finished." (The God of Sex: How Spirituality Defines Your Sexuality, Dr. Peter Jones, pp. 78-79)
As male and female distinctions drain into androgyny, the use of toddlers, older children and even babies for the sexual satisfaction of adults will not only be tolerated but prized, hence the pagan sage Xenophon declared:
"I must now speak of pederasty, for it affects education." (The One and the Many, Rousas John Rushdoony, p. 73)
Unresolvable Problem: Origin of Life
"Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me." John 14:
The unresolvable problem for all nature systems, and this includes Mormonism, is the ultimate origin of life and soul/spirit. This is why contemporary naturalists such as SETI researcher Paul Davies and Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA molecule, have rejected abiogenesis, the idea that brute matter spontaneously generated itself from nothing, in favor of panspermia.
Panspermia is the vain idea that life on earth was accidentally seeded by meteorites containing the essential building blocks of life or perhaps by highly evolved extraterrestrials from deep space who for billions of years have been guiding the evolution of man. The extraterrestrial idea was favored by Arthur C. Clarke in his book, "Childhood's End" and a variation on this theme has recently been advanced by Davies, Crick, and Ralph Pudritz of McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario.
Crick however admits that panspermia only pushes the unresolvable problem out into deep space:
"This scenario still leaves open the question of who designed the designer [aliens] how did life originally originate?" (Crick, Life Itself: Its Origin and Nature, 1981)
Creation Ex Nihilo, the Incarnation: Repugnant to Nature Sages
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14
The revolutionary impact of the Christian teaching about creation ex nihilo and the Incarnation was nothing less than a scandal for pagan sages just as it is for 'new' pagan evolutionary materialists (i.e., Karl Marx, Freud), evolutionary pantheists like Hegel, Blavatsky, and Luciferian Theosophists, as well as for both pre-Christian and Christian-era Gnostic's and Mormon prophet Joseph Smith.
Molnar writes that it is inconceivable to nature sages that God,
"...the spiritual being par excellence, should assume materiality a thought as distasteful to their contemporaries as the idea of creation ex nihilo, which meant that matter too was God's creation and did not preexist creation as a separate and evil principle." (pp. 26-27)
In company with pagan sages, Mormonism rejects creation ex nihilo and the Incarnation. While faithful Christians adhere to the fact that Christ's birth was the result of a miraculous conception, that Mary was a virgin yet still conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18), according to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism,
"Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons and daughters of Elohim." (4:1676; Mormonism Research Ministry)
The LDS Church manual Gospel Principles makes clear that all men and women are children of the man-god Elohim:
"All men and women are literally sons and daughters of Deity." (2009, p. 9; ibid)
This includes the Mormon Jesus, who according to Sixth LDS President Joseph F. Smith was,
"Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors" (Gospel Doctrine, p.70; ibid).
So both Jesus (Jehovah) and his spirit-brother Lucifer were birthed by the man-god Elohim who lives near the great star Kolob. Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball comments,
"Long before you were born a program was developed by your creators ... The principal personalities in this great drama were a Father Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgment, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah." (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, pp. 32-33; Mormonism Research Ministry).
Putting all of this together, the Mormon man-god Elohim emerged (created himself) out of eternally existing matter much like the ancient Egyptian's self-created Sun-God Ra. And as with all ancient nature origin accounts, the Mormon man-god cannot account for either the ultimate origin of life or man's soul/spirit:
"The essence of the human is not the body, but the soul. It is the soul alone that God made in his own image and the soul that he loves....For the sake of the soul...the Son of God came into the world...." (Incomplete Work on Matthew, Homily 25, Ancient Christian Devotional, Oden and Crosby, p. 153)
Nor can it ultimately account for the two created sexes, male and female, since all things including the Mormon man-god Elohim somehow emerged out of genderless spirit (pre-existing matter). Thus like their ancient counterparts, Mormonism is fated to give way before the demands of gender-neutral homosexuality.
Capitulation is already underway:
"Attorneys for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are in quiet discussions with leaders of Utah's gay and lesbian community, trying to hammer out language for a statewide ban on housing and employment discrimination that the church could support. Sen. Curt Bramble, R-Provo, opened a bill file on Thursday the last day to request attorneys draft legislation titled Housing and Employment Amendments and will sponsor the legislation should an agreement be reached." (Mormon Church Working on Bill to Protect Gays From Discrimination, hypervocal.com)
And while LDS attorneys hammer out tolerance policies with the gay and lesbian community, the Boy Scouts meanwhile, have put off deciding whether to reverse its long-standing policy regarding open homosexuality. The BSA's indecision is hailed by some as a strong stand, by 'gay' supporters as intolerant and bigoted. (Boy Scouts Stand Strong, Delay Potential Policy Reversal, Walker & Messner, heritage.org, 2/7/2013)
By whatever label homosexual, gay, man-boy-lover, transgender, drag queen, bi-sexual androgyny and nature systems go together like a hand and glove. Prior to Jesus Christ's earthly ministry pagan sages generally taught and practiced some form of gender-neutrality in keeping with their belief that pre-existent matter is the gender-free "one substance" out of which all things emerged. But when Jesus Christ fully man-fully God walked this earth, nature sages came face to face with the awful truth that God really exists, and further, that He really did create just two distinct sexes, male and female.
Nature philosophers and high priests had exchanged the truth about God for a lie (Romans 1:25-27). Writing in agreement, early Church Father Athanasius reveals that pride preceded man's fall into nature worship. A haughty spirit led them to disregard the higher things of God and seek in preference lower things here in the natural dimension.
The truth as to evil said Athanasius,
"...is that it originates, and resides, in the perverted choice of the darkened soul "which, materialized by forgetting God," and engrossed in lower things (i.e. matter, chemicals, DNA) "makes them into gods" and thereby "descends into a hopeless depth of delusion and superstition" whereby "they ceased to think that anything existed beyond what is seen (naturalism)....so turning away and forgetting that she was made in the image of the good God...sees no longer the Word after whose likeness she is made...." (Against the Heathen, New Advent)
Ideas have consequences. For Mormonism as with evolutionary materialism, its secular derivatives and occult 'green' pantheist New Age spirituality the predisposing corruption resides in foundational ideations. Thus in the rejection of the supernatural Triune God of Revelation together with the Genesis account of creation ex nihilo resides the inability to account for the origin of life, of man's soul/spirit (reason, will, conscience), immutable truth, moral absolutes, fixed meaning, and purpose (Psalm 115:4-8).
And with the rejection of the Incarnation (the historical Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity), comes the inability to logically account for and defend the two sexes. Thus the fate of Mormonism together with evolutionary materialism and occult pantheism is to not only fall into moral relativism and superstition but to eventually give way to the demands of unrestrained libido including the use of children for the sexual gratification of adults. And these are the crimes against nature said Augustine,
"(which are the) crimes of the men of Sodom (and if) all nations in the world committed them they would all stand guilty of the same crime against the Law of God, which did not design men so that they should use each other this way." (Confessions of St. Augustine, p. 49)
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
“But the Mormon threads are part of the Religion forum. If you cant call out a false doctrine there, where CAN you do it?”
They don’t believe it is false doctrine. Their religion, like yours, requires some leaps of faith. Not sure what your religion is, but the entire Evangelical movement is based on the leap of faith that God wrote the Bible through intervention with humans and the Bible, written in different times by different human beings in its multiple translations over time, which passages were chosen by a counsel of humans at Nicea under the Pope and the Roman Empirer Constantine amond thousands of scriptures that were not chosen to be a part of the Bible, and were designed by God to be taken literally as put on paper in the King James version. The entire Evangelical movement requires the faith that God himself pulled all those puppet strings and completely takes out the human element. I don’t know much about Mormon theology, but I assume it also requires such leaps of faith. Just because you or I say it is false doctrine isn’t going to win any arguments, discussions, or debates.
A GOD, you say???
16, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 714, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 1520, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 2125, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 2627, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 2839, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 4047, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 4850, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 5157, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 5866, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.
18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto themYe shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depthsthen shall it be written in the Lambs gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.
24This is aeternal livesto bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
I read the whole article and it was not a "Mormon bashing thread" at all. Just happens that a belief system that far preceded Joseph Smith, paganism, was plagiarized by J.S. as almost all of his ideas were, whether word for word from the K.J.V. with King James era language and all or from earlier and non Christian thinkers.
I've come to believe that Smith never entertained an original thought and simply picked from this and that, anything that tickled his fancy at the moment and did it ever tickle his "fancy" when he thought to take whatever opposite sex, young or old, married to another or not, for his very own. Even that wasn't original, as every old horn dog in history has wanted to do the same. Sadaam Hussein's son comes to mind as a fairly recent example. Money and power allows that sort of thing to happen but as Husseian's son and J.S. both found out, decadence comes with a price tag.
LOOK!!!Over THERE!!!
Or...
"Waste your time trying to defend a vague accusation."
The HELL it doesn't!
Christians are COMMANDED to point out, rebuke, expose and root out false teachings.
Hasn't the Iron Maiden & the Rack taught you ANYTHING?
No, no more than liberals’ claims of morality being relative.
Truth is truth. And false religions are just that.
Shouldnt people be steered away from false religions, if possible?
Spirited: You’ve gone to the heart of the matter. As there really is life after death of the body, then what we believe about eternity is of utmost importance.
As Mormonism has been shown to have no answer to the origin of life, it follows that it cannot account for the existence of its’ man-god. So at its most fundamental level, Mormonism is a lie. And as with all nature systems down through history, it’s through the dumb-lips of this non-existing man-god (invented idol)that the Mormon hierarchy speaks, commanding believers to submit to an onerous system of pseudo-morality and good works in hope of achieving godhood upon death of their bodies.
Mormonism cannot account for either life or soul/spirit, so it logically follows that it really cannot account for its’ promise of godhood after death. Therefore we ought to earnestly expose this false religion and steer souls away from it.
No.
It's like same sex 'marriage'.
That animal does NOT exist and will NEVER exist; no matter HOW many times it is repeated.
That’s all fine. But it still has to be okay to point out false doctrine in the Religion forum.
Gonna have to ask for references for that one.
LOL
Bump for later intrigue
I forgot to ping you to #37
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Jonestown, 1978
JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?
JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?
JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?
JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!
JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.
JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!
JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.
JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.
JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?
JOSEPH SMITH: This? At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30)
JESUS: That's it.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: Nah - it was right.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.
JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.
JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!
JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?
JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....
JESUS: What did you say?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.
JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.
JESUS: No...
JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?
JESUS: Nope.
JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!
JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: No; it wasn't.
JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?
JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?
JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.
JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.
JOSEPH SMITH: But....
Mormons are not generally characterized as promoters of socialism.
_________________________________________
Unless you know about the Mormon system of “united order”
That book you speak of is subject to editing and updating at any given time at the discretion of the current "prophet".
Likewise, Liberals think THEY are right; but we do NOT let that fact slow us down in pointing out their idiotic schemes.
Just because you or I say it is false doctrine isnt going to win any arguments, discussions, or debates.
You are ABSOLUTELY right!
And that is WHY we actually show the differences between what MORMONism teaches and what the BIBLE teaches.
Then most folks will have data upon which to form an opinion as the validity of one or the other.
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