Posted on 01/02/2013 11:43:34 AM PST by Salvation
“Saints are alive in heaven.”
Of course.
“We ask them to pray for us.”
Of course you do.
The better question is...
Do they hear?
and
Do they have any power that a Christian does not have already to BOLDLY approach the Throne of God?
The answer to the first is, we have no idea.
The answer to the second is, they do not.
If this is a doctrine from God, He would have either commanded it of His Church or shown it during the first 100 years of the Church. Neither is evident in scripture.
So pray away. You’ll never know if you are heard and you could have been talking directly to the Father.
Ping!
**Do they hear?**
The pass our requests on to the Lord.
They would not even be Saints if requests had not been granted by God.
Did you read the Scripture above?
Salvation, yes I did read what you provided - none of which commands us to pray to departed Christians. none of which models anyone in the early Church praying to a departed Christian. Hence my post.
You have never asked anyone, living or dead, to pray for you?
Also, please remember that some of these Scriptures are not in a KJV.
Salvation, the people I ask to pray for me are in my physical presence and hear me. I know this because they answer, “Sure”.
Their are a great many translations of the Holy Scriptures. On my computer, I have 15-20. None of the translations command Christians to ask departed Christians to pray for them. None claim special access or powers to departed Christians. None say they can hear you, if you talk to them.
If this is such an important thing to God, why would he not have commanded it or shown 1st century Christians doing it or provided a record during the first 100 years of the church that demonstrated it?
It is simply an argument from later history that assumes things the Scripture never says or implies. In short, it isn’t from the Apostles Tradition, but was added much later. If that is good enough for you to believe it, you must be convinced in your own mind.
It is far better to go to the One who has all Power and Authority, who has commanded us to ASK IN HIS NAME.
Amen ...
If you are having trouble following the logic of Catholic mysticism ... take a couple of advil ... it lessens the pain.
The insistence that Christianity is limited to what appears in written Scripture is unscriptural.
(ahem)
from YOUR OWN ARTICLE....
OK, so why pray to saints? We pray to saints to ask them to pray for us...
Repeating in bold font for emphasis...
The Saints hear you too. They are alive.
Yes, bodies die, but souls remain alive and travel to heaven, hell or purgatory.
it is now and always has been idol worship
“The insistence that Christianity is limited to what appears in written Scripture is unscriptural.”
I did not do so. Try again.
“The saints hear you to.”
This shouldn’t be hard for you to prove then. Give it a shot. So far, you’ve shared opinion. But I for one am absolutely open to your proof. Then please share where any member of the Trinity commanded the Church to do this. I’m open. Go for it.
I’m afraid you did, or else what reason do you now give for dismissing intercessory prayer to saints?
Romu,
Please read my posts again. If you read carefully, you will see I said no such thing. If you are unwilling to do that, it is your call.
ampu
You seem to be making an exception for “departed” that does not exist in scripture. We are to ask for other’s prayers, not excluding anyone in the Body of Christ.
As to the Saints in Heaven being aware we have scripture from Revelation and that concerning the “cloud of witnesses” to tell us they do - as well as being alive in Christ, God of the living.
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