Will Smithmas return this year? [Merry Smithmas!? Lds' Joseph Smith b'day usurps Christ's birth?]

Mormon Discussions.com ^ | Nov. 30, 2012 | Aristotle Smith

[Colofornian]

I just realized that Christmas falls on a Tuesday this year, so December 23 is on a Sunday. This of course provides a great opportunity for the LDS church to prove its Christian roots by using that day to talk about Joseph Smith, it is his birthday after all.

So, will the average LDS ward celebrate Smithmas or Christmas on December 23 this year? I'm guessing my wife's ward will split the difference and dedicate part to Joseph Smith and part to Jesus. I may even have to show up and pay attention to see what happens, it could be entertaining.

[Nifster]

If you bothered to read all of my post, I stated clearly that I participated in the seasonal celebration. I however do not consider this to be the day of the birth of my Lord and Savior. I acknowledged the difference of the two ideas no matter what you thought you read

[Nifster]

It wasn’t a complaint merely an observation of what Christmas is and isn’t. Did you bother to notice that I specifically referred to the things I do to celebrate during this seasonal time?

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“If you bothered to read all of my post,”

I did. Taht’s why I start off with the point that Christmas is not pagan. Maybe you should have read my post. Maybe you shouldn’t be a hypocrite too.

“I stated clearly that I participated in the seasonal celebration.”

And I clearly did not say that you didn’t do that. Again, you clearly did not read what I posted.

“I however do not consider this to be the day of the birth of my Lord and Savior.”

Which I never mentioned or referenced in any way because that point is essentially meaningless.

“I acknowledged the difference of the two ideas no matter what you thought you read.”

No, you did not. I wrote: “You just don’t celebrate Saturn’s Day. There’s a huge difference between those two ideas.” Clearly the “difference of the two ideas” is that a day could have some sort of pagan meaning for ancient pagans but have no such meaning for Christians. You, however, have already stated your incorrect understanding: “I have no illusions about the day...it is a pagan celebration and always has been.” Thus, you consider Christmas day to be pagan. Thus, you do not see the “difference of the two ideas.”

Learn to read. Don’t be a hypocrite.

[trebb]

Now when all the snark starts flowing you will get all huffy. Really, what do you expect posting something like this?

I agree - so many are so hung up on Mormonism as being the greatest threat the world has seen that they lose sight of reality. I'd wager that when the prophesy fulfills, Mormonism will not be the one world religion that requires the mark of the beast of death - I wonder what religion is out there that might fill this bill...

[Gamecock]

[Not gonna take it anymore]

Islam

[Colofornian]

lol

[Colofornian]

...so many are so hung up on Mormonism as being the greatest threat the world has seen that they lose sight of reality.

#1...Multi-tasking is allowed in this life...You can take on both Islam and Mormonism...(that's allowed)

#2...only a fool thinks the "brush fire" here on earth is the three-alarm, city-wide meltdown that hell represents.

#3...I would have thought, Trebb, that we take our cultural cue from a certain "Lord" named Jesus Christ? Who are we to follow when it comes to setting cultural priorities? Jesus and the apostle Paul? or Huddles Masses?

Here's Jesus:

"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:4-5)

So does Jesus say, "fear the one-world dominant Muslims?" (No)
Instead, does He say to exercise fear of the One who has authority to cast somebody into hell? (Yes)
So, indeed, our "fear" is on behalf of those who are placing their eternal spiritual lives at risk.

As the apostle Paul was leaving the church of Ephesus, he warned them with this high-priority alert:

"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)

Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)

Tell me something, Trebb: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years, do you think it's rather important? So what? We're just to conclude, "Oh, the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament -- what does he know about cultural priorities?"

I'll take Paul's and Jesus' already-revealed priorities to your guesswork...

[Colofornian]

God loves you.

Jesus loves you.

The Holy Spirit loves you.

These three persons within One God, not multiple gods, love you.

And I love you, too.

I love you enough to tell you the truth. And not to patronize you by withholding it from you.

You're important.

You're of value.

And it's important we have a series of ongoing convos in heaven.

Please ask yourself: "What am I basing my anticipated time with Heavenly Father upon? When I boil it down, what am I trusting in to get me from Point A - here - to Point B -- being with Heavenly Father?"

[Colofornian]

Most modern Christians aren’t even aware of pagan connotations that many elements of the modern celebration once commonly had.

Well most modern Christians aren't aware of pagan connotations assigned to most names for days of the week or most months.

I don't think we are honoring the Roman (& other) gods of the day, are we?

If you call Saturday Saturday, we're not giving recognition to Saturn's Day, are you?

[SoConPubbie]

Good news!

IHATEMORMONS.NET

Quit with the false accusations 2ndDV.

Get back to us when a false Christian religion quits leading it's unsuspecting adherents into hell.

[Colofornian]

Last year Saundra and Resty directed me to a lecture by one of the twelve for the Christmas season, it was about fifteen minutes long.The name of (lds) jesus was not even mentioned until the eight minute mark and only once, then once again at the very end. Because JS bday is on a Sunday my guess that will be the focus.

('Tis best when mentioning to ping as well)

[DManA]

I have no idea what you think you are agreeing with.

[going hot]

9 bucks? What a rip off.

Why, one can do the same thing here, for free!

[svcw]

You are correct, I did not know restornu was back, and thought Saundra had left.
Apparently I was wrong on both counts.

[HiTech RedNeck]

It seems double minded to jawbone about how “pagan” it is yet to do it... but again I’m jes’ a red neck.

[Gumdrop]

Chistmas does not begin liturgicaly until Dec. 25th.

Do Mormons usually celebrate Christmas before Dec. 25th? I mean - with the reading of the infant naratives in the gospels? Usually in Christian churches, readings from the Old Testament prophets are emphasized during advent, and then on the evening of Dec. 24th, the celebration of the birth of the Mesiah begins with the bells tolling and the people singing Christmas Carols.

It seems to me that jumping the gun inside the church edifices is not a good thing to do. It sacrifices the scriptures to commercial interests, and then on Dec. 26th, Christmas is over; when in actuality, the Christmas celebrations in churches should be continued until the Feast of the Epiphany. (12 days of Christmas, get it?)

[Elsie]

Smith is more important than Christ...

Surely NOT!!!

---

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

 

 

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

 

---

---

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

I'd wager that when the prophesy fulfills, Mormonism will not be the one world religion that requires the mark of the beast of death - I wonder what religion is out there that might fill this bill...

HMMmm...

This sounds kind of...
uh...
hateful.

I hope I'm wrong.

[Elsie]

You are correct, I did not know restornu was back, and thought Saundra had left.

Their bannishment for bad behavior has been lifted - as it has for a lot of MORMONs on FR.

I do not have knowledge as to why.