Posted on 11/26/2012 1:17:49 PM PST by victim soul
I wasn’t a Christian when I became pro-life. I was kind of anti-Christian. I was converted on the basis of science, reason, ethics, and human rights.
A year later, I was confirmed in the Catholic Church. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. But I also don’t think one has to be a Christian to be pro-life.
I do, however, believe that one has to be pro-life to be a Christian.
Why? Well, because, duh.
I mean, is it really necessary to go into deep biblical study over this issue? Is it necessary to quote Exodus 21:22-23, or Psalm 139:13-15, or Matthew 18:10, or Jeremiah 1:5? Is there even really anything to argue about? I think the big “argument” about whether you can be a Christian and be pro-choice is B.S. I think that deep down, every Christian who knows the truth of abortion knows the answer to this.
Is it possible to have even a rudimentary understanding of Christianity and think abortion is okay? Can any of us really imagine Jesus Christ holding a woman’s hand and encouraging her to have an abortion?
I was astounded when, a few years after becoming pro-life, I discovered that there were denominations of Christianity that were not explicitly pro-life. I was shocked when I learned there were Christian denominations that were explicitly pro-choice.
I did a little research, and of the major branches of Christianity, the only ones I found with a strong pro-life platform were the Catholics, the Southern Baptists, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Evangelicals. There are thousands of Protestant denominations, so I’m sure I missed some, but of the major ones, these are the only ones I have found. Please correct me if there are more
I’d love to hear that there are more. That there are so few Christian denominations who have an official pro-life platform is troublesome. What is even more troublesome is that there are many Christians who, despite having submitted to the authority of a church that tells them abortion is a grave and mortal sin comparable to almost nothing else, believe in abortion “rights” – and vote for them, against clear instruction from their church. Southern Baptists and Evangelicals who are pro-abortion are less common, and, ironically, they do not have the same belief that their church can separate them from full communion with Christ through excommunication, as Catholics do.
According to large denominations of Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Quakers, Church of Christ, and more, abortion is not incompatible with Christianity, which is the same as saying abortion is not incompatible with Christ.
Do you believe that? Do you believe that pro-choice Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, et al. actually believe that?
I don’t. I don’t buy it for a second. I don’t for one second think, if Jesus Christ appeared before a congregation of “pro-choice Christians” and asked them their opinion on abortion, they would look Jesus in the eye and say abortion is okay. I don’t believe for one second that a “pro-choice Christian” would stand in a clinic with Jesus Christ and watch a woman have an abortion.
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe they have really convinced themselves that abortion is kindness to women, and somehow not cruelty to and the killing of an innocent, dependent human being.
And hey, maybe my understanding of Christianity is completely bass-ackwards. Maybe Christianity is not really about loving and helping those in need, protecting the innocent, telling the truth, and bravely defending justice and righteousness. Maybe Christianity is about intentionally and specifically ending an innocent human life if it is inconvenient or difficult, and encouraging women to “solve” their problems with violence against their children. Maybe “suffer the little children to come unto Me” is just pretty words, or just a poetic way of telling people to make sure the children they allow to live outside the womb go to Sunday school.
Jesus wanted Christians to be kind. No one argues with that. But kind to whom, exactly? And what does “kind” mean? Just going around being “nice” to everyone is lovely if you’re a saffron-robed Tibetan monk, or a spaced-out hippie. But if you’re the slightest bit aware, and if you have any concept of justice, you must admit that, like David Mamet said, “[k]indness to the wicked is cruelty to the righteous.” We have to get over this idea that encouraging terrible behavior is ever kind.
So, if we apply this truth – “Kindness to the wicked is cruelty to the righteous” – to abortion, who is the wicked, the mother or the child? The mother, obviously. We don’t mean that she utterly sinful and repulsive, but it is she who created this situation in almost every case, and it is never the innocent child. Also, if we choose to do “kindness” to her instead of the child, someone will die. If we choose to do kindness to the child, no one will die.
Then there is this: choosing to do “kindness” to the mother by encouraging or allowing her to abort her child is not kindness. It is telling her that doing something despicable and wrong is okay and will help her. That is a lie. Lying is wrong, kids.
It’s fun to pretend Jesus was a misty-eyed hippie. Except he wasn’t. The culture we live in tells us Jesus was okay with, for example, adultery, because he saved a woman from being stoned to death for committing it. They leave out the part where told her to “sin no more,” because nowadays the only sin is believing in sin. Our culture too often confuses mercy with leniency. They are not the same thing.
I have no doubt that Jesus was kind, but I don’t think he was nice – not in the way we mean it today. He told us to love everyone. Loving everyone does not mean smiling and shrugging at everyone’s sin. I don’t expect mine to be smiled and shrugged at. If I wanted that, I would be a Unitarian Universalist. Telling people killing their babies is okay is not loving. It’s not true. It’s not righteous. It’s not Christian.
Saying publicly that abortion is not Christian is judgmental and mean, or so I have been told repeatedly. Well, I’m judgmental and mean, I guess.
Look, I know I am a sinner. I sin all the time. I’m horrible and lowly. I fail constantly. But I am a Christian, and I rely on the mercy of Christ to save me. What I don’t do is pretend my sins are not sins. I have done it before – we all have, probably – and I had to repent. You can’t go around indignantly declaring that grave, life-destroying sins are fine with Jesus because it makes you more modern and hip and “with it,” or because it sounds “nice,” or because hell yeah women’s rights.
I wrote 223. I meant 223.
Why do you continue to propagate the lie about 30,000+ Protestant denominations? You promote lies, in efforts to promote your particular denomination (or “rite” (semantics)). Pathetic.
My reading of James IS correct. Sorry —
Did you see that the source for that post was a Protestant one? Please do not call me a liar.
Did you check the Catholic rites link? Shall I post that for you too?
“Regarding the debate about faith and works: It’s like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most important.”
~C.S. Lewis
This is a link to the same source you referenced: http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a106.htm#Catholics
Get your facts straight.
Words such as "false" "wrong" "error" do not attribute motive.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
That was a pretty divine typo!
No room for debate. If you endorse murder of innocents you are not a follower of Christ. Period.
Indeed, Salvation is not a one and done thing, it is a life long endeavor.
"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." - 1 Corinthians 15:1-3
I did not call any Freeper a “liar.”
This Freeper is promoting a known lie. That is simply what I was saying.
Please undelete the comment I wrote above, explaining this in detail.
You are absolutely right. Whether thru abortion or ObamaCare's death panels...the murder of innocents is NEVER aceeptable...
And therein lies one of the ironies. One can be saved and continue sinful thoughts and activities. Paul lamented that he did the things which he would not do and did not do the things that he would do. He agonized over his inability to be true to the teachings of the Lord; hence the fact that "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven" - those who acknowledge their sinful natures and struggle against them are blessed.
I've heard folks say that if they continue to do some of the things they did before they were saved, then they ought to reexamine whether or no they are truly saved. I say that those who think they have eschewed all sinful practices since being saved need to reexamine their true condition. God Bless
“Any sin that is ongoing and the sinner unrepentant is not covered.”
“Then there is no hope for you friend. If Christ’s blood and death didn’t cover your sins - all of them - even the ones you don’t currently recognize as sin, then you are headed to hell.
Of course, His death and shed blood did cover all sins, past, present and future.”
OSAS? Do you mean that you can sin and not repent and still go to Heaven because you said the ‘sinners’ prayer’?
Generally speaking yes.
I will provide a caveat or two.
1) A new convert may be pro abortion and not yet have heard enough about pro-life in their new faith and cling to their sin for a season. But I certainly expect them to repent and become pro-life at some point.
2) In many apostate churches there is a remnant of true believers, but they are not getting fed the truth so in a sense they are dead in the water. These dear souls may be hearing that abortion is OK. Until they are led to a church that preaches the truth they may be stuck in that sin for some time.
In both cases, we need to pray for these people that the Holy Spirit will lead them to the truth.
Generally speaking yes.
I will provide a caveat or two.
1) A new convert may be pro abortion and not yet have heard enough about pro-life in their new faith and cling to their sin for a season. But I certainly expect them to repent and become pro-life at some point.
2) In many apostate churches there is a remnant of true believers, but they are not getting fed the truth so in a sense they are dead in the water. These dear souls may be hearing that abortion is OK. Until they are led to a church that preaches the truth they may be stuck in that sin for some time.
In both cases, we need to pray for these people that the Holy Spirit will lead them to the truth.
Proves nothing other than that they were for it before they were against it. And you CAN’T disprove that.
But even if you had not used the word "lie" your original claim specifically attributed motive with this phrase: "... in efforts to promote ..."
“Do you mean that you can sin and not repent and still go to Heaven because you said the ‘sinners’ prayer’?
of course not.
Your understanding of James misses his argument before and after the passage you quote.
Perhaps you should outline the argument in James and see how your passage supports that argument.
In the meantime, no doctrine is based on a single passage. Doctrines are based on the totality of the Bible’s teaching about a topic. I suggest you add Galatians and Romans to your study. You will learn that justification is always based on faith and not works.
Take that understanding with you back to your outline of the book of James.
Blessings to you.
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