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Pope’s ambition, a blend of the Novus Ordo and the Old Rite, could sweep Church [Catholic Caucus]
CatholicHerald.co.uk ^ | Friday, 20 May 2011 | William Oddie

Posted on 10/04/2012 4:23:16 PM PDT by Salvation

The Pope’s ambition, a powerful blend of the Novus Ordo and the Old Rite, could sweep the Church

There are too many difficulties attending both the Novus Ordo and the Old Rite

By William Oddie on Friday, 20 May 2011

The Pope’s ambition, a powerful blend of the Novus Ordo and the Old Rite, could sweep the Church

Cardinal Walter Brandmüller celebrated the Extraordinary Form Mass at St Peter's Basilica on Sunday (CNS photo)

An extremely interesting story by John Thavis – which appears currently on the Herald’s homepage under the headline “Pope’s ‘reform of the reform’ in liturgy to continue” – reports what seems to me a potentially wondrous proposed advance. But will it happen? There is a danger that what amounts to an entirely new proposal of a fresh liturgical development, going beyond both the Ordinary and the Extraordinary forms of the Mass to something possibly better than either, will sink without trace: so here’s my two penn’orth towards getting it noticed and talked about, and I hope acted on. Here’s what Cardinal Kurt Koch, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (of all things) said on Sunday:

“The Pope’s long-term aim is not simply to allow the old and new rites to co-exist, but to move toward a ‘common rite’ that is shaped by the mutual enrichment of the two Mass forms.”

The fact is that both existing forms, as at present celebrated, lack something. Much has been alleged and lengthily spelled out about the defects of the Novus Ordo, so I say nothing about them here. But the Old Rite (I intend to call it that in future: “Extraordinary Form” sounds like a physical defect of some sort) also presents its difficulties, if for no other reason than that it has become so unfamiliar to many if not most people. I have always thought it nonsensical and wrong that the Old Rite should be banned in the aftermath of Vatican II; the liberalisation of its use following Summorum Pontificum was long overdue. But the great and undoubted riches of the Old Rite, it has seemed to me since I recently began to attend it on Sundays, are impeded from re-entering the mainstream of the Church’s liturgical life by an almost inseperable barrier. It’s very difficult indeed for anyone not actually brought up with it (and that’s a large and growing proportion of congregations these days) to find out what is actually going on, except at certain key points when bells, the elevations and so on, indicate it unmistakeably.

Though I have been moved by the powerful atmosphere of devotion surrounding the celebrations of the 1962 Mass I have attended, especially during the silent prayer of consecration itself, I have struggled during most of the celebration to pinpoint what point in the Mass we have actually reached: just where I am and what is happening. I have the text there in front of me, in both English and Latin: but when the Mass is being “said”, either virtually inaudibly or in total silence, it’s easy to get lost. Look, this isn’t in any way a negative reaction. But it is a difficulty. I will just have to persevere. But it’s discouraging. I had already studied (and been greatly moved by the beauty of) the text. There were some landmarks in it I was watching out for, for instance that wonderful opening declaration “Introibo ad altare Dei”: but I never even heard it the first time, and still haven’t. We were miles past it when I caught up. Now, as I say, I will need to persevere: but most people who don’t have a long acquaintanceship with the old Mass and how to attend it will be put off. And that is a very great pity.

So the idea of a “common rite” that is “shaped by the mutual enrichment of the two Mass forms” is very attractive to me. The Novus Ordo, celebrated in Latin as a High Mass (as it is in what I am fortunate to be able to say is the church I attend on Sundays, the Oxford Oratory), is very moving as it is. To add, for instance, the whole introductory rite of the old Mass, asperges and all, would immensely enrich it even further. In a new translation (which would have to be done to the same standard as that of the awaited translation of the Novus Ordo) it would help at churches which are, at the moment, liturgically struggling to get to the point of devotional take-off (I’m assuming, of course that there’ll be no guitars around by then: if there are, better for them to stick to the Novus Ordo we have rather than compromise the “enriched” form I look forward to having).

Meanwhile, the struggle to establish, often against the obstruction of local bishops, the absolute right of those who wish for it to have the old Mass, continues. As a story on this home page reports:

A new Vatican instruction calls on local bishops and pastors to respond generously to Catholics who seek celebration of the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. The instruction, issued today, said pastors should approve such Masses for groups of faithful, even when such groups are small or are formed of people from different parishes or dioceses.

But the CDF statement does more than just call on bishops to “respond generously”, as though they had any business whatever doing anything else. It tells, them, in terms, that the people have an absolute right to the old Mass if they want it, and that they are not to get in the way:

The Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum constitutes an important expression of the Magisterium of the Roman Pontiff and of his munus of regulating and ordering the Church’s Sacred Liturgy. The Motu Proprio manifests his solicitude as Vicar of Christ and Supreme Pastor of the Universal Church, and has the aim of:

a) offering to all [my italics] the faithful the Roman Liturgy in the Usus Antiquior, considered as a precious treasure to be preserved;

b) effectively guaranteeing and ensuring the use of the forma extraordinaria for all who ask for it, given that the use of the 1962 Roman Liturgy is a faculty generously granted for the good of the faithful and therefore is to be interpreted in a sense favourable to the faithful who are its principal addressees

Bishops are also instructed “to offer their clergy the possibility of acquiring adequate preparation for celebrations in the forma extraordinaria. This applies also to seminaries, where future priests should be given proper formation, including study of Latin and, where pastoral needs suggest it, the opportunity to learn the forma extraordinaria of the Roman Rite”.

So the people have a right to the old Mass: and the clergy should be trained in its use: that is the Pope’s wish. In the light of all that enthusiastic stuff about a “Benedict bounce” that we heard from the bishops after the Pope’s visit, can we expect them now to respect his wishes?

I have two motives in harrying the bishops in this matter: first, it’s a matter of justice: those who want the old Mass now have an actual right to it, and it’s the bishops’ pastoral duty actually to facilitate the implementation of that right. Second, the more the Old Rite is celebrated, the more likely, perhaps, will become what I would really like to see: a new rite, in which the best of the Novus Ordo (including two of the three new Canons) would be retained, with the whole liturgy enhanced by the riches of the Old Rite, now clearly and audibly celebrated for the first time: that could be a liturgical wonder which would sweep the Church.

I prattle, of course. There are too many enemies of any real “reform of the reform”, and they are too powerful, for any such thing to get off the ground anytime soon. Aren’t there? All the same, according to the Herald, Cardinal Koch says that this and nothing less is “the Pope’s long-term aim”. But how long is “long-term”? There’s the question. Ah, well.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; liturgy; novusordo; rites
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To: utahagen

I too would be ever so grateful for one Tridentine Mass available at the cathedral church, per week. Fly-over country must drive for hours to find such a beautiful Holy Sacrifice anywhere, with few dioceses offering one at all and none proficient.

I was received in 2001 and never seen one.


21 posted on 10/04/2012 6:56:51 PM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY)
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To: Salvation

In my opinion, the perfect liturgical blend looks like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q251EywW__M


22 posted on 10/04/2012 7:32:07 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Salvation

Old Rite with New Rite’s 3 year cycle of readings. I can live (happily) with that. I first heard that recommended by a former SSPX priest in 1996!


23 posted on 10/04/2012 9:46:20 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: annalex

“mikes worn and perhaps a rolling display of the prayers both in Latin in English projected roughly where the hymn numbers are. Is it silly? I think the author has a valid point that unlike in better times, the congregation does not know the Latin.”

Then they should learn and we should teach them. I teach Latin to my Grade 8’s so that they do understand what is being said at mass.


24 posted on 10/04/2012 11:34:41 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: Salvation

Except we’re not handling it. Catholics are 100 times less biblically literate than they were under the old rite.


25 posted on 10/05/2012 2:50:31 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: annalex

The congregation did not know the Latin in the old days. The idea that you have to hear everything and follow it word-for-word is a Protestant idea.

Those who cared knew exactly what was happening because they had studied and learned. Those who didn’t care didn’t know nuthin. That part is still true. The difference is that even those who “care” don’t know much.

The idea that the goal is to be able to hear and follow along with the Latin when attending the Traditional Mass is a fallacy that will only lead to misunderstanding it.

It was (and is) the Sacrifice of Christ. It takes place. We are present at it and drawn into it at a much deeper level than knowing every single word. In the Novus Ordo people, presumably hear and understand every single word and they don’t bother to come—from 75% to 25% Mass attendance. Now just how is that a gain?????????


26 posted on 10/05/2012 2:54:56 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: annalex

Those who wanted to could follow the Latin by using Latin-English hand missals. They could not hear every word (none or inadequate sound systems) but they could know exactly what was being said by means of the priest’s and servers’ gestures (not just the bells) and, if they wanted to, follow the English in their missals. But they could also participate in, devoutly and fully, without knowing Latin.

A variety of levels of “following along” were possible and all could be full of devotion.

Today, we can hear every word in a language we supposedly know inside and out and most people sit there letting it wash over them.

So how is that different from the old days when most people could not follow the Latin? There always was a percentage of people who just didn’t much care. That percentage is the same today as it was.

But the difference is that 50% of those who came back then (but didn’t much care) don’t even come today.

So how is that a gain?


27 posted on 10/05/2012 2:59:22 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: vladimir998

The 3 years practice is best.


28 posted on 10/05/2012 3:14:48 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Is not the “psalm of the day” what is now the “response psalm” ?

Better use an intro psalm to said first, then the opening hymm right away.


29 posted on 10/05/2012 3:18:48 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: JCBreckenridge
Then they should learn and we should teach them.

Yes; the question is, what should be the teaching aids?

30 posted on 10/05/2012 5:15:50 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Houghton M.
The idea that the goal is to be able to hear and follow along with the Latin when attending the Traditional Mass is a fallacy

No question, there is a contingent that goes to Mass without care; then there is a contingent that wants to be at the Sacrifice of the Mass, understands it with or without the knowledge of Latin and does not need word-by-word supplements of any kind; finally there is a contingent of learners who want to transition from the first group to the second group. For them, not a compromise is needed but learning aids; again, it is no different than the display with the hymnal numbers. To tell them: "learn some Latin then come back" is not the best approach. Neither is "don't attempt to understand the words".

[From your second post to me:] the difference is that 50% of those who came back then (but didn’t much care) don’t even come today

So how is that a gain?

Again, the topic of the article is: what transitional forms of the Mass could be offered for those who wish to attend the Traditional Mass but find the transition too steep, given the realities of today, whether we like these realities or not? I think that the bilingual missals are not sufficient: it is easy to loose your place and then one loses the mental space he is supposed to be in and instead frantically races up and down the missal to re-synchronize. The modern electronic means exist to offer synchronized display for those who need it; operating them should be the job of the altar boys, no different than holding up the Gospel and bringing the vessels.

On the other hand, I disagree with the idea of a compromise in the way the author proposes it: a yet third form of the Mass that is neither Traditional nor Novus Ordo.

I think that the Novus Ordo itself should be evolving toward the Old Mass, not in the spirit of compromise but in the spirit of improvement. It is, after all, an experimental form of liturgy and the experiment should continue since we are apparently not ready to cancel it outright. Hence my second suggestion, to reintroduce elements that were simply cut in the Novus Ordo for no clear reason.

31 posted on 10/05/2012 5:39:45 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Biggirl

Some “ministers of music” substitute whatever they want for the psalm. It ain’t right.


32 posted on 10/05/2012 6:31:31 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

That is why, if there was any changes, start off with a psalm chanting which go right away into an intro hymm which would match it as best as possible. It would be a balance.


33 posted on 10/05/2012 6:36:36 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: annalex

Rather, combine the very best of both rites. This Pope gets it right. Remember, even though I am past 50, I hardly remember the old mass, I am very much a child of the new mass.


34 posted on 10/05/2012 6:38:36 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Salvation

Didn’t Fr. Fessio already try this, and did not receive huge support from Pope John Paul II or Cardinal Ratzinger?


35 posted on 10/05/2012 11:08:34 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: annalex

I was given a latin missal which was very helpful to me.


36 posted on 10/05/2012 12:31:17 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: Salvation

Our Mass is currently a blend of the two and is quite lovely. We use the Adoremus Hymnals. Lots of beautiful old songs in there! The Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus and Lord’s Prayer are all in Latin. The church is in an older part of downtown KC and homeschool families come from all over the metro to attend Mass there. The choir is magnificent! I don’t ever want to move from this area strictly because of the amazing Mass. I don’t ever want to go back to the hand clapping, back slapping, humorous Masses we’ve attended before. I only want holy and reverent for the rest of my life. I had no idea how incredible it could be.


37 posted on 10/05/2012 1:47:18 PM PDT by samiam1972 ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."-Mother Teresa)
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To: Biggirl

Well, how are you going to “combine” them? The priest can be facing God or he can be facing you, — not both. People either kneel at the barrier and receive on the tongue or receive in the hand without kneeling. The consecration is either in Latin or it is in English. Prayer to St. Michael is either said or not said. The Good Friday prayer for the conversion of the Jews is either said or not said. Etc.


38 posted on 10/05/2012 5:25:09 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: JCBreckenridge

A missal is helpful but it is not the only aid feasible without disrupting the Mass. In fact, the reliance on the Missal is itself disruptive because it keeps you nose in the book and your mind anxious no to go out of synch, when you should be looking at the altar.


39 posted on 10/05/2012 5:29:45 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Seeing as I’m deaf, I found the missal quite helpful. :)


40 posted on 10/05/2012 11:18:47 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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