German bishops get tough on Catholics who opt out of church tax

Reuters ^ | 9/21/2012 | Tom Heneghan

[Dr. Thorne]

PARIS (Reuters)- Germany's Roman Catholic bishops have decreed that people who opt out of a "church tax" should not be given sacraments and religious burials, getting tougher on worshippers who choose not to pay.

Alarmed by a wave of dissenting Catholics quitting the faith, the bishops issued a decree on Thursday declaring such defection "a serious lapse" and listed a wide range of church activities from which they must be excluded.

[Bayard]

Because the press understands what the German Bishops have forbidden? Doubtful, they hear “sacraments” and think that means someone is cut off forever.

The whole point of censures, even excommunication, is meant to change peoples ways, not to cut them off.

[ansel12]

I agree with that, and hope that the part about confession is an over reach by the press.

It does mean you can’t be a godparent though.

[count-your-change]

The grown ups won’t be far away. Cheers!

[JCBreckenridge]

“Does the threat of coercion in order collect taxes entail a state is an unjust authority?”

When it entails public financing of abortion, yes. I felt that personally, my options were to simply work for free and barter and keep myself under the threshold where I would be taxed, until I could relocate to a jurisdiction where I would not be funding abortion with my taxes.

Others may feel differently.

[D-fendr]

from the article:

PROTESTANT EXODUS

Germany's Protestant churches have also seen a steady exodus in recent decades as members - who become registered at baptism - leave because they no longer believe, disagree with some policy or want to save several hundred euros in church tax.

A major departure wave from both Catholic and Protestant churches occurred in the early 1990s, when the government raised taxes to finance ex-communist eastern Germany.

Since the levy was almost the same as the church tax - whose origins date back to the 19th century - Germans could neutralize the tax boost by quitting their church.

[GeronL]

They need an unregistered house church movement very badly

[ansel12]

Yeah, we already know the basic fact of the tax, the thread is about what I posted earlier, to someone else that mentioned that all churches are taxed.

“”This thread is not about the tax, but about what the Catholic church is doing to Catholics, in regards to the government’s tax collecting efforts.””

[D-fendr]

I don’t think we have the full story on this, and I’ve done quite a bit of looking.

[D-fendr]

Perhaps you can help me. I’ve been unable to find information on what the Protestants churches are doing to Protestants, in regards to the government’s tax collecting efforts.

[Cronos]

This dates from the Weimar constitution. Not only Catholics but all other religious communities get this money collected by the German govt

I think this is a stupid idea and should be ended.

Incidently this dates from Lutheran German states where the head of state the prince) was the one responsible for financing the Churches) hence once the princely states ended in 1919 with the end of the German Empire, the govt stepped in

This is similar to what India's government did to the Princes in India -- under the British Raj, princes got a stipend from the govt. The Indian govt continued to do this under the obligations of handover. They did this until 1971 when Indira Gandhi told the princes to go to heck

The German Churchs should end this

[Cronos]

Incidently, this is about 8% in Catholic bavaria and 9% in the rest of the country. Denmark, Iceland, Sweden etc. have a church tax too -- which amounts to 1% or so.

All of these should be abolished in my opinion.

[Cronos]

German churches are allowed to forgo the tax and collect donations directly, but if they do, they have to turn over to the state all the tax information of their adherents

Really? that is too much interference by the state. Is this true of the Scandanavian countries as well?

[Cronos]

Nominal Catholics who do not support their Church still want to use churches for weddings, funerals, christenings and other functions - and expect that the choirs, organists, electricity, security and everything else should be paid for by the Catholics who actually designate the Church as their tax contribution.

And that is just the start of problems when you get big govt

It's better in the rest of the world where you pay for what you use

[ansel12]

It would have to be by denomination, the Catholic denomination started this policy for their church, and then we will have to look at other denominations individually to see if they withhold any sacraments, or spirituality from non-payers.

[Cronos]

note — this Church tax is collected for non-catholic: lutheran, calvinist, etc. as well as by jews and I think moslems as well

[Cronos]

well, other Churches also receive Church tax. It's mandatory as wideawake said in post 5 -- either the Church take the money this way, or it needs to get and share the tax details of its congregants.

It's not only Christian Churches which get this, but also Jews and I think Moslems too

[Cronos]

Not really, it depends on which of the various Evangelical Churchs (all receive this church tax) you are talkign about -- they have their own rules preventing people from using facilities if they don't pay for them.

In one way -- say, using church facilities it makes sense -- if you can afford to pay for the organist, flowers etc. for your wedding day, why should others pay for you?

[Cronos]

Well, it's the other way, the Government forced the Churches into bed and truly speaking it's a historical idiosyncracy which should be abolished

To you, Jehovah's Witnesses do not receive Church tax in Germany as far as I am aware of, and neither does the Church of Scientology. I'm not sure if it is because they are not recognized or not.

[Cronos]

it depends on which of the various Evangelical Churchs (all of them receive church tax).

[ansel12]

I got three posts from you, you didn’t give the name of any churches that withhold spiritual services from parishioners for non-compliance like the Catholics do, so I don’t know what all your posts were about.

We already know that the tax is universal, that isn’t what the thread is about.