Posted on 07/16/2012 6:29:36 PM PDT by scottjewell
There is no way, short of a miraculous and full-scale changing of hearts and minds, for North American denominations to survive the homosexuality crisis. Denominations like the PCUSA, ELCA, RCA, UMC, and Episcopal Church will continue.
They won't fold their tents and join the Southern Baptists (though wouldn't that be interesting!). I'm not suggesting most of our old, mainline denominations will disappear. But I do not see how any of these once flourishing denominations will make it through the present crisis intact.
And the sooner denominations admit this sobering reality the better.
Every denomination is different. The percentages on both sides of the issue and the official positions are not identical. But the basic contours of the problem are quite similar.
On one side you have liberals who want to see the church open its doors to the GLBT agenda. They want homosexual behavior welcomed and affirmed. They want to perform gay marriages. They want gays and lesbians to be ordained to church office. Liberals (or "progressives" or whatever-I'm trying to use neutral labels) see this as a justice issue.
They believe conservatives are simply on the wrong side of history and that one day we will look at our traditional attitudes toward gays and lesbians like we look at old attitudes toward African Americans or our old attitudes toward women's ordination. We will be embarrassed to see that we could have been so blind and bigoted for so long.
On the other side you have conservatives who want to see the church maintain purity and biblical fidelity. They want homosexuals to be loved and treated with respect.
But they believe the behavior cannot be tolerated as Christian behavior. They see this as a gospel issue. They believe liberals are simply on the wrong side of the Bible and one day will be embarrassed to see how much we dishonored God by capitulating to our culture. To cave on this issue is not only to reject the plain teaching of Scripture, affirmed for two millennia of church history, but it says to people "peace, peace" where there is no peace.
n the middle are those who want both sides to get along. Maybe these third way folks are liberals willing to let conservatives keep doing their thing for awhile because they believe today's conservatives will slowly evolve or die off. Maybe they are institutional loyalists who want to preserve the denomination at all costs. Maybe they consider homosexuality a relatively minor issue, one not worth fighting over and dividing the church over. Or maybe, as is often the case, those advocating for a third way are conservatives who don't want to be the meanies who put up a fight.
These are the three main parties in this controversy-left, right, and center-and there is no way to make each of them happy. There is no way for mainline denominations to broker a compromise that everyone can live with.
Read more @:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/why-no-denomination-will-survive-the-homosexuality-crisis-78296/
“Fulfilling the commandment to be fruitful and multiply.”
This is one of the most interesting phrases in the bible. To complete the phrase I believe it is necessary to include the “why” and that is to “replenish the earth. This begs two questions..1) replenish ( to fill up again)? does this mean the earth was filled before? 2) once replenished then what?
All original interpretations, greek, Aramaic, hebrew use the same “replenish” concept.
My thoughts 1) yes the earth was full before we are living in one of many ages. 2) we better figure this one out because there is such a thing as over fill.
Those today that are 'non-denominational' - not affiliated with any of the old 'mainstream' churches have survived, and many are quite large with 'offspring' churches that thrive.
The UMC is a world-wide denomination which holds its "General Conference" once every 4 years. Delegates from every area (annual conference) are elected to attend; half are clergy and half are laity. During General Conference, church polity and policy are debated and established for the coming 4 years.
We just held the 2012 General Conference in Tampa this past spring. As always since 1972, there were efforts to change the stance on homosexuality - and especially the most pressing sentence which states, "The United Methodist Church does not condone the practice of homosexuality and considers this practice incompatible with Christian teaching."
To make a long story short, that language was maintained by 55-45 percent. A second attempt - to change the language to the THIRD WAY wording that "we agree to disagree on this issue" [my words, not exact wording] - failed by a larger margin, 40-60%.
The UMC maintained its biblical stance on homosexuality primarily with the help of the African delegates who spoke boldly and clearly for the current language and biblical sexuality.
Because Christ was born of a woman. Salvation for all came through child bearing.
> In what way , which of the other choices is yours?
To avoid “denominations” like the plague that they are.
Not that there aren’t good, solid Christian folks in the congregations, but I’m certain it was never meant to be that way.
From 1st Corinthians Chapter 1
10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 ¶ I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
BTTT for your comment.
“Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.” (I Timothy 2:11-15)
I don’t know of any legitimate bible scholars of Greek that think St. Paul was saying there a woman is saved because she has kids.
Paul talks a lot throughout the New Testament about how people are justified, or “saved” and never distinguishes between men and women—all come to God through Jesus. The Church has always taught that too, men and women are both saved the same way...so to try to pretend there’s confusion on something where there is none, is just not helpful.
The verse is assuring Christians that in THE most dangerous life-event for a woman in the ancient (and up into the 1800s) world, child-birth, she will be protected, that’s all.
If you meant that remark to mock the bible so as to dismiss what it says about male authority in the Church, you’re only mocking and dismissing yourself.
I’ve been thinking for a while now that the true Church in America will eventually have to go underground - meeting in members’ homes instead of church buildings, due in large part to this issue. Then a short time ago we see the guy arrested for hosting a Bible study in his home. Things that make you go “hmmmm.”
The Sodom and Gomorrah photos are amazing. Thank you for posting.
Thank you both for your good responses.
Here are two good videos dealing with this topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t5584lmAQUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJnvM8CwY4
No they don’t, the Hebrew word is ‘to fill’ or ‘to be full’.
So Paul has the same authority as Christ Our Savior? I have never understood this. Are we the Christian Church or the Paulian Church?
Glad you read there. This is an amazing tale - and even more amazing that it has been discovered anew!
It’s never been a problem for Trinitarians to understand.
I don’t think that is what Christ wants. Christ wants them healed by being freed from their sin through His grace. Sin is the enemy and we should pray for the defeat of sin, especially when it has so many in its grip.
I have done no such thing. I just wanted to have clarification. Do you have specific siting in the bible to go along with what you said?
Thanks for that info. I suspected that it was the Africans who saved us from a certain schism. Our little rural Methodist church would have lost many members over it and probably would not have survived.
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