Posted on 03/31/2012 8:03:04 PM PDT by Salvation
The Rapture
by Sebastian R. Fama "The Rapture" is a term that is used by Bible Christians to describe the belief that at some point in time Jesus will come, and all true believers will literally rise up and meet Him in the air and be whisked away to heaven. All non-believers will remain on the earth to be dealt with later. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus will come and judge the living and the dead. The righteous will be saved and the unrighteous will suffer eternal damnation. No one will be left on the earth. Belief in such a rapture was first taught in the late 1800’s. Interestingly enough there seems to be little agreement among Bible Christians as to what exactly will happen or when. One of the passages used to support belief in the Rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Verse 17 says, "Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." This simply speaks about the end of the world when true believers will be saved. Paul's purpose is not to explain the judgment of the living and the dead, but rather he is assuring believers that the dead will participate in the Second Coming of Christ. Notice what the first and last verses of the passage say: "But we would not have you be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep…therefore, comfort one another with these words." The words "caught up in the clouds" are used to illustrate how quickly things will transform at the Second Coming of Christ: "We shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). Matthew 24:36-44 is also used to support belief in the Rapture. It reads in part, "Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left." This means that the righteous will be saved and the unrighteous will be left for destruction (Hell). The conclusion of the passage (verses 45-51) makes this clear: "Who then is the faithful and wise servant whom his master has set over his household to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Truly I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites. There men will weep and gnash their teeth." Whenever the term "weep and gnash their teeth" appears in Scripture, it refers to those who are in hell. Note that verse 45 begins with the words "who then." This shows us that we are still on the same subject as we were in verses 36-44.This is important because it illustrates that on the appointed day the righteous are being saved and the unrighteous are going to hell. Keeping that in mind, who does that leave on earth? No one! If we combine all of the verses of Scripture that deal with this issue we find that the Rapture is simply not possible. Consider the following: Jesus will be coming back to earth one more time not two. The Rapture requires a second coming, (the Rapture) and a third coming (the end of the world). Some try to get past this by claiming that the Rapture is not the Second Coming because we meet Jesus in the air and not on the earth. But even the verses used to support the Rapture such as 1 Thessalonians 4:15 speak of it as "the coming", which indicates that it is a coming and a singular event at that. 1 Thessalonians 4:15: "For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep." Matthew 24:27: "For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of man." 1 Corinthians 15:22-23: "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at His coming those who belong to Christ."
1 Thessalonians 2:19: "For what is our hope or joy or crown of boasting before our Lord Jesus at His coming?" Jesus must stay in heaven until that time. That leaves no time for the Rapture before the end of the world. Acts 3:19-21: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from old." When He comes He will be coming all the way down to the earth. He won't be hovering over it, as the Rapture requires. Acts 1:9-11: "And when He had said this, as they were looking on, He was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as He went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven." When He comes He will be coming to judge the living and the dead. Once again if all are going to be judged that would leave no one on earth.
Matthew 25:31-46: "When the Son of man comes in His glory, and all the angels with him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and He will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and He will place the sheep at His right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at His right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world'…Then He will say to those at His left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels'…And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." In conclusion the Scriptures teach us the following: 1. Jesus will be coming back to earth one more time not two. In John 16:13, Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead His apostles into all truth. And yet we find no support for the Rapture in the scriptures. Likewise, the writings of the early Church fathers are silent on the issue. Since some of them were contemporaries of the apostles, we can reasonably assume that they would have known about the Rapture if it were a part of the deposit of faith. The Rapture is also not mentioned in any of the creeds. As we noted earlier, the idea of the Rapture was first taught in the late 1800's. If the apostles and their successors were ignorant of the Rapture for eighteen centuries, it would mean that Jesus lied in John 16. That in itself rules out the Rapture.
2. Jesus must stay in heaven until that time.
3. When He comes He will be coming all the way down to the earth.
4. When He comes He will be coming to judge the living and the dead.
Copyright © 2001 StayCatholic.com
You haven’t read the Book of Revelation?
I’ve understood that everyone, that is EVERYONE will experience the tribulations mentioned.
Actually looks like ‘373AD’ the Rapture was preached as follows..you might find this an interesting read:
In Grant Jeffrey’s book.. “Triumphant Return”,.. he writes that about.. 373 AD ...Ephraem taught in a sermon that there was a pre-tribulation rapture.
This writing can be found in Ephraem’s sermon... “On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World.”,... Ephraem said in this sermon, ...”For the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins”.
Ephraem also taught in this same sermon that the war of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38-39 would precede the tribulation and he taught the imminent return of Jesus.
I neither know nor care. Why on earth would I know the answer to that question? It IS an odd question.
You ought to ask your own preacher/priest these questions. Or, you can go to Catholic answers.
Lol. Why on EARTH would you even THINK that I would know the answer to that??? I plan to AVOID God's wrath AT ALL TIMES. I will let others like you worry about the Tribulation. I have tomorrow to worry about and my bad hip.
Whenever a theology gets justification straight, they tend to develop a literal interpretation of Scripture. Later as they advance through other doctrines, the eschatology then becomes pretrib premil.
Even the Puritans before the end of the 17th century became premil, whereas their previous doctrines a century earlier were quite different.
As for bugging out to the mountains...he has a place there to bug out to so it's not like he doesn't have a destination nor without knowledge of who lives out there.
I think what I'm doing is determining if or not I myself am included with their plans and if so how to go about connecting....and or... do so in the year ahead so I'm closer should events heat up. If it would prove otherwise then I need to do what I can here and now....as my other plan failed to come to fruition as hoped...and the clock is ticking.
I never said in post 13 or anywhere that what I was describing was in perfect detail everything about the end times. I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything.. I was only asserting that what 1 Thess 4 seemingly clearly shows is that Christ will visibly return, and the dead will be raised (verse 16) before the believers are assumed bodily into Heaven (verse 17).
The last word is yours if you need it, but know this: I'm not interested in anything else you have to say here, unless you wish to explain how the dead are not raised before the "rapture" of believers, because that would be interesting. After all, as I did say in post 13, "Scripture SEEMS pretty clear on this" (not I "know" Scripture is pretty clear on this). "seems" doesn't mean "know". It means it appears, to me, but I'm willing to hear how I could be wrong. So, if you're willing to show how I'm wrong about 1 Thess 4, then I'm willing to listen. I'm not willing to listen if you're going to be insulting however.
And by the way, you won't convince me (and thus will be ignored), if you simply give other Scripture passages to "show" the "rapture" comes first, because quite frankly I'll never believe Scripture condradicts itself, and that's exactly what that kind of "argument" will necessarily imply.
>>I have tomorrow to worry about and my bad hip.<<
There’s your problem. Do a search in scripture on “take therefore no thought for tomorrow”. In fact, why don’t you go straight to Matthew 6.
BTW I had polio when I was two and now have post polio so don’t cry to me about your hip.
I’ve not only read Revelation but studied it extensively. Faithful believers do not experience God’s wrath. Many promises are given in scripture to believers that they will escape the wrath to come. Its current unbelievers who will experience that wrath just as unfaithful Israelites were punished by God and then returned to Him. It will cause some to repent and be killed but current faithful believers are promised to be kept from that wrath.
Interesting..I didn't know that about the Puritans.
But I do tend to think that once an individual does see both sides of the issues and this with the 'literal' interpretation of scripture...they do move to pre-mil and pre-trib....For myself after studying the two it simply confirmed what I believed to begin with...but now I knew 'why' I believed it, not just because it was taught.
There are just too many holes which open wider when people "spiritualize" what's written.....and that gives way then to anything being possible...whatever one might "think" could be or imagine. In fact many of the false religions and cults today are deeply into "spiritualizing" text and thus mis-lead many.
Isn’t it amazing.
Thank you for your kindness.
Tracking back, I do see I missed the sense of your post #15.
I’ll try to keep up.
Hosanna
The concept of the Rapture does not preclude that the “dead in Christ” rise first. They do rise first than those of us who are faithful believers will be “caught up with them” to meet the Lord in the air. Christ does not return to earth at the rapture. It’s after Armageddon that those who perished during the tribulation are raised.
I can't imagine someone thinking they're going to experience the tribulation period. That's 'like' not having the assurance of ones Salvation....or imagining themselves hanging in the purgatory mode. How awful to be seemingly hanging out there not knowing when Jesus made it so clear "that we may know".
Yes...agreed.
Interesting, thank you. What you describe is possible given that the dead are raised first.
Now, let me make this question clear, as apparently I wasn’t clear before: Verse 16 also states that Christ will visibly return, “loudly”, before the dead are raised, doesn’t it? Thus, since we agree the dead are raised before the “rapture” of all believers, doesn’t this mean Christ returns visibly before all of this?
Again, seems pretty clear to me. It seems to be simple logic.
Not “loudly” for the unbeliever. Remember that they don’t even hear His voice.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
It happens in “the twinkling of an eye” 1 Cor. 15:51-52. Unbelievers, if they hear anything at all, will deny just as they do many other things Christians talk about.
Alright, thanks. Goodnight.
I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. Read http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2006/08/imprimatur-watch-what-youre-reading-my.html for an eyeopening look at what that term actually means and DOESN'T mean.
cloud —> don’t be taken in by fancy tales from the various Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses or other cultists out here —> they will pass you false links, etc. anything to show their despise of Christ...
I wonder why so many people MISS this part of the verses from I Thessalonians 4:13-18
" Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."
It seems to be quite clear that the souls of the redeemed who have died in Christ, will be brought back WITH Christ to be reunited with their glorified bodies. Their change happens first, then we who are alive are caught up together WITH them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and then be with him for eternity. We are told to encourage each other with this revelation. Then, in chapter 5 of I Thessalonians, Paul speaks about the Second Coming of Christ upon the earth where ALL eyes will see him and this happens at the end of the seven year Tribulation.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.