Which Came First: The Church or the New Testament?

Orthodoxinfo.com ^ | by Fr. James Bernstein

[Inyo-Mono]

Bookmarked for later reading.

[shineon]

ok

[fish hawk]

You've hit a very interesting subject but seriously now, you don't really expect anyone here to actually read all that you have posted here , do you? I'm not. I got it all figured out so if you are smart enough to write this much about it , you will probably figure it out too. When you post like this , it's not for input, it's for laying out your point of view.

[Citizen Tom Paine]

Church came first. Read the Dadace (The teachings of the apostles)

[doc1019]

Unless he purloined this from another author?

[rzman21]

It’s the beginning of dialog. Hopefully, people will stop and listen.

[narses]

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[rzman21]

Church came first.
I’ll follow that up by asking. What came first the spoken Word or written Word?

[oldbill]

All books of the gospel (New Testament)came long after the Church of Jesus Christ was founded, which can alternatively be the Last Supper or the commission of Christ to Peter " Tu es Petrus et super hanc Petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam" ("thou art Peter (the rock) and upon this rock I will build my Church".)

[Salvation]

**I needed to humble myself and come into union with the Church that produced the New Testament, and let her guide me into a proper understanding of Holy Scripture. After carefully exploring various church bodies, I finally realized that, contrary to the beliefs of many modern Christians, the Church which produced the Bible is not dead.**

And the truth becomes apparent.

Check the introductions to the books of the New Testament. They will usually have the authorship date along with lots of other information about the writing of that Gospel, letter, etc.

[Salvation]

Good advice.

Church History: The Didache [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Catholic Word of the Week: DIDACHE (Teaching of the twelve Apostles), 05-18-10
Early Christians and Abortion
The Time Capsule
The Didache or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles
The Didache - The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations

[American in Israel]

Cluelessness in Mass quantities.

A gentile can come to God through the deeds of Messiah Ben Joseph by becoming adopted into the family of Israel. The Jews will have their eyes opened by Messiah Ben David.

A Jew cannot convert to a Christian, they can only become a Jew that understands who the Messiah is and was in history. They become a completed Jew. Not a Messianic Jew.

It is all so mixed up and strange, Jews who are wannabe gentiles who all trying to be wannabe Jews who are getting adopted into the family. Just how can a full blood soen be adopted by his Father? He can be repatriated, with the family, but never adopted! Only a Gentile could be adopted. A Jew, "converting" to Christianity is a full blood son, trying to be a non family member so he can be adopted back in. Seriously twisted logic...

How about you all just be who you are and trust God and the Messiah and their plan?

A Jew “converting” is like someone trading their inheritance for a bowl of soup. Judah, Jacob and his sons will be saved in the end by the Messiah and those who cling to them. So, the Christians are Clingons...

[verga]

I know, I know, pick me pick me, It was the Church Founded in 330 AD by Jesus, the Bible didn’t come along till the councils of Rome 387, Hippo 393, and Carthage 397.

[SkyDancer]

Book of Acts explains it pretty much. People just gathered when news of a letter from Paul or another Apostle came and was read and discussed. The first gathering was at the house of Dorcas. Now look at the corporations of churchianity.

[wolfman23601]

Church came first. New Testament wasnt put together until the 300s

[rzman21]

The Book of Acts is only part of the story.

[verga]

I know, I know, pick me pick me, It was the Church Founded in 330 33 AD by Jesus, the Bible didn’t come along till the councils of Rome 387, Hippo 393, and Carthage 397.

[knarf]

Much reading doeth make one mad

[Uri’el-2012]

How does YHvH define "church" i.e.Ekklesia ?

Is it all those called out by YHvH ?

A study of the word "church", in the Koine Greek : Ekklesia.

Was the "church" started at the YHvH commanded
Feast day of Shavuot (pentecost) as some say ?

or

Did the "church" exist earlier ?

Using the LXX as a guide we see that the Ekklesia
is first used in Deuteronomy 4:10

NAsbU Deuteronomy 4:10 "Remember the day you stood before YHvH, your God
at Horeb, when YHvH said to me, 'Assemble the people to Me, that I may let
them hear My words so they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on
the earth, and that they may teach their children.'

Also see : Deu 4:10, Deu 9:10, Deu 18:16, Deu 23:3, Deu 23:4, Deu 23:9, Deu 31:30,
Jos 9:2, Jda 20.2, Jda 21:5, Jda 21:8, Jdg 20:2 Jdg 21:5, Jdg 21:8, 1 Sa 17:47,
1 Sa 19:20, 1 Ki 8:14, 1 Ki 8:22, 1 Ki 8:55, 1 Ki 8:65, 1 Ch 13:2, 1 Ch 13:4, 1 Ch 28:2,
1 Ch 28:8

What was the purpose of the Ekklesia ?

Was it a temporal corporation to rule on earth ? No !

Was it to have a temporal head ? No !

It was a gathering of YHvH's chosen people to hear His Word ?

and learn to Fear YHvH all their days ?

And to teach their children the same ? Yes.

-------------

Ekklesia is from the Hebrew Qahal (kop, hey, lamed)
which is haQahal The assembly (hey, kop, hey, lamed)
In scripture it is always used to describe
those who have been assembled by YHvH.
It begins in Exodus 16:3 ( the bread from heaven )
and continues to Nehemiah 8:17 (living in Booths)

NAsbU Nehemiah 8:17
The entire assembly of those who had returned from
the captivity made booths and lived in them.
The sons of Israel had indeed not done so
from the days of Joshua(Yehoshua)
the son of Nun to that day.
And there was great rejoicing.

Shabbat Shalom !

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach