Mormons Teach Polygamy is Divine [one-minute YouTube clip]

YouTube.com ^ | Dec. 19, 2010 | iqlusionblogspot

[Colofornian]

If a Mormon tells you the LDS church does not practice polygamy, ask what their scriptures teach and prophets have taught about polygamy. Also ask them what LDS prophets teach about the existence of polygamy in the celestial kingdom.

[Elsie]

So we have a habit of picking one thief out ( the one we think is the worse of the lot )of maybe a thousand and try to make an example out of them., get the worlds attention on them so they will not see our own ignorance.Who just happens to CLAIM that he's NOT a thief; and then we see the STOLEN things right there in his hands!

[Elsie]

Maybe people should read acts 4 and 5 to find just what it means to be an actual (believers do not have to be members) member of the church.

I'd suggest 15.

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Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem

 ¹ Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” ² This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. ³ The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. ⁴ When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 ⁵ Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

 ⁶ The apostles and elders met to consider this question. ⁷ After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. ⁸ God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. ⁹ He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? ¹¹ No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 ¹² The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. ¹³ When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. ¹⁴ Simon^[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. ¹⁵ The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 ¹⁶ “‘After this I will return
   and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
¹⁷ that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’^[b]—
 ¹⁸ things known from long ago.^[c]

 ¹⁹ “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. ²¹ For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers

 ²² Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. ²³ With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 ²⁴ We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. ²⁵ So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— ²⁶ men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. ²⁷ Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. ²⁸ It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ²⁹ You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 ³⁰ So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. ³¹ The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. ³² Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. ³³ After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. ^{[34] [d] 35} But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas

 ³⁶ Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” ³⁷ Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, ³⁸ but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. ³⁹ They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, ⁴⁰ but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. ⁴¹ He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

[circlecity]

"Abraham and Jacob both of whom had more than one wife"

So, they also did other things I believe are sinful. Should I deny my wife and call her my sister because I'm afraid of Pharaoh? Should lie to and decieve my father to take what is not rightfuly mine? Paul says a church elder or deacon should be a "husband of one wife" because this is the standard of morality expected by God. Thus, yes, I do put polygamy down as pornea.

[ravenwolf]

I have far less problems with adult consentual polygamy than with homosexuality.
___________________________________

Thats interesting...

Because God has “problems” with both of those sexual deviancies...

According to God both are equal as sins and both have the same penalty of damnation...

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That is very interesting.

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Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

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If polygamy was considered an abomination God would not have permitted his chosen men, Abraham and Jacob to have more than one wife.

Some people might say that it was for a special purpose, but God would not have any part of an abomination for any purpose.

[ravenwolf]

I have far less problems with adult consentual polygamy than with homosexuality.

God condemned both, what’s your point?

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Please show me the scripture that says that poly is condemned.

[ravenwolf]

I have never been a Mormon because i believe it to be a religion just like any other religion instead of a faith, but polygamy never had any thing to do with it since the Mormons do not teach it.

However because of all of this stupid b.s about Mormons and polygamy maybe i will change my mind and become a Mormon, well, that is if the Church will change its doctrine and allow me to have more than one wife.

Any good man needs more than one wife, (not really serious but making a point) but then i guess many men don,t need a wife at all, but i have a feeling that most of the anti polygamy posts either come from two fisted women or from men who are in subject to a wife who is the pants wearer of the family

Not political correct but how does one say what is on their mind any other way.

Is any of this stupid un biblical stuff going to make people realize the truth and make then leave the Mormon church, i doubt it and what would they leave it for? where this stuff is taught, i hope not.

[Tennessee Nana]

God would not have permitted his chosen men, Abraham and Jacob to have more than one wife.
______________________________________

God didnt...

Abraham didnt marry again until after Sarah had died...

He also had a concubine, Haggai but she was never his wife...

She remained always, Sarah’s slave/servant...

As for Jacob,

yes he “married” his cousins, 2 sisters..

it was the conniving on behalf of an ugly unmarriagable daughter by his FIL that gave Jacob first Leah as a wife and then a week later, Rachel..

It was Laban’s idea not God’s..

Jacob never checked with God to see what He thought of Laban’s suggestion..

Jacob wanted Rachel and he would get her one way or another..

He even foolishly offered to work for Labaqn as a slave (no pay) for SEVEN YEARS in order to have her..

So Laban took him up on the offer..

and sent in Leah at the end of the 7 years..

Then Jacob worked another 7 for Leah...

This was not a man who checked with God...

God didnt rule his decisions...his desires did..

Laban lowered his daughter’s worth by giving her as a concubine and not as a legal wife..

Leah and Rachel were always in competition for Jacobs affection...

Later the 2 girls plotted to give their servants to their husband to make more babies in order to be the favorite..

There was no peace in that household..

Leah was the legal wife...Rachel was just an extra..

It was through Leah’s line that Jesus came..(Judah)

and Levi was also Leah’s son..through whom the priestly line came..

Rachels line ..Joseph and Benjamin..

Benjamin was cursed and Joseph did climb out of the pit...

But not because of his father ...it was due to his own actions..

Leah was blessed with several sons while Rachel was cursed and barren..

When the LORD saw that Leah was not loved, he opened her womb, but Rachel was barren. Genesis 29:31

Why was God concerned with whom Jacob loved ???

Because Leah was the legal wife and Rachel wasnt..

Jacob knew God was displeaed with him because he had “taken” Rachel..

Jacob became angry with her and said, “Am I in the place of God, who has kept you from having children?” Genesis 30:2

Its significant that Leah’s 6th and last son was Judah..

It was about 20 years before Joseph Rachels first born arrived..

Meanwhile she like Sarah had given her handmaiden/slave to Jacob to make babies for her...

Since Leah wasnt getting pregnant anymore, she too gave her young handmaiden/slave to Jacob to make babies..

These were not wives...they were SLAVES...owned body and soul..

They had no say in whom they had sex with..

Rachel’s slave Bilbah had 2 sons and Leah’s slave Zilpah had 2 sons..

None of it God’s idea..

Then finally Rachel had a son..Joseph was born

It was years again before Benjamin was born...and Rachel died..

This family was so messed up that Jacob the husband was treated like a gigilo by his legal wife...

So when Jacob came in from the fields that evening, Leah went out to meet him. “You must sleep with me,” she said. “I have hired you with my son’s mandrakes.” So he slept with her that night. Genesis 30:16

No God wasnt responsible for any of that abomination..

[Tennessee Nana]

Then Jacob worked another 7 for Leah...

That should have been Rachel...

[Colofornian]

...polygamy never had any thing to do with it since the Mormons do not teach it...

#1 If you've ever seen a Mormon bumper sticker "Families are Forever," you'd realize, "Yes, they still teach it."

All they've done in their minds is to colonize it to another planet after they die and futurized it to this planet after the Mormon jesus returns.

A person can still be solemnized to more than one spouse for one of those "forever marriages" -- as long as they do that in the temple -- and don't line up spouses simultaneously on earth.

What that means is if your first wife dies; and you marry a second (and/or third, etc.), you can have them all forever.

So where you come off saying they don't teach that?

Re-read Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie's quote on the YouTube clip that is the thrust of this thread -- for saying that polygamy will be re-instituted.

However because of all of this stupid b.s about Mormons and polygamy maybe i will change my mind and become a Mormon

Well, either way, it sounds like it will leave you as you are in your distance from God.

[Colofornian]

Please show me the scripture that says that poly is condemned.

#1...Jesus doesn't allow any other "combos" for marriage other than one man, one woman -- 2-becoming-one. I don't see 3-becoming-1, 4-becoming-1, etc. in Matthew 19:5-6. Genesis 2:24 says the same.

Deuteronomy 17:17 condemns taking many wives -- leading to a man's heart going astray.

Mormons in the 19th century often took wives who were sisters. That is condemned in Leviticus 18:18.

[Colofornian]

If polygamy was considered an abomination God would not have permitted his chosen men, Abraham and Jacob to have more than one wife.

Sorry. Doesn't work that way. God Himself instructed Hosea to marry Gomer, a prostitute.

Per your logic, Gomer would have given up her prostitute role post-marriage. She didn't. (She made it part of her "cottage industry").

Jacob didn't launch into polygamy because God told him to...Deception was the root...and then wives' child-bearing race kicked in re: them having their servants sleep with him. Deception...jealousy...hardly "godly" motivators.

Nobody ever referenced Hagar as a "wife" except Sarah. And then only once. After Abraham slept with her (for all we know, it may have happened only one time), the Angel of the Lord doesn't reference her as a wife...only a servant of her mistress (Sarah).

Abraham doesn't.

Moses, who compiled Genesis, doesn't several chapters later.

The apostle Paul, when mentioning Hagar in Galatians 4, doesn't.

She was still a mere servant-girl status post becoming pregnant.

[ForAmerica]

Please show me the scripture that says that poly is condemned.


God = no
Mormon church = yes

[taxcontrol]

I am not mormon nor do I susbscribe to their views nor do I accept mormon books as being scripture. Before you start attacking the messenger about being informed you should check your own knowledge:

Did David have more than one wife before he became King?
How many wives did King David have?
What scripture in either the Old or New Testements bands polygamy? And before you try and streach Deu 17:17 to fit the view of one wife, read verse 16 and apply your logic to that verse and tell me how many horses the king was allowed to have.
What prophet called multiple wives a blessing?
Which of the parables told by Jesus describes a wedding where multiple brides were there to marry the groom?
Why are there specific prohibitions against a woman having mutiple husbands but there is NOT a like prohibition against men having more than one wife?
Why does the Jewish law REQUIRE polygamy under specific circumstances?
Why are so many examples of polygamy presented in the Bible yet there is not a rebuke of a man for having multiple wives (Solomon’s rebuke was for being led astray not for multiple wives).

Your right, the facts do speak for themselves and it is a shame that so many christians slimply adopt the view of others without researching the scriptures for themselves.

[ravenwolf]

I believe she did the same things that a wife would do and since she was given to him by Sarah she was a wife, what ever we wish to call it she was given to him by some one who had that right.

Jacob had two wifes and two concubines, the father had the right to give away his daughters and his daughters had a right to give him their servants, and all four did the things a wife would do.

You say God had nothing to do with it which may be right but that does not change the fact that Abraham and Jacob are the Patriarchs of what has become the Christian faith, i do not think they would have been if God had counted Polygamy as an abomination.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Single issue poster alert

[ravenwolf]

I am not mormon nor do I susbscribe to their views nor do I accept mormon books as being scripture. Before you start attacking the messenger about being informed you should check your own knowledge:

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I read deu 17: 16 and 17 you are absolutely right, sure makes sense to me.

[ravenwolf]

#1...Jesus doesn’t allow any other “combos” for marriage other than one man, one woman — 2-becoming-one. I don’t see 3-becoming-1, 4-becoming-1, etc. in Matthew 19:5-6. Genesis 2:24 says the same.

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Yeah, that was and is the ideal, but where does it say that polygamy is condemned.

[ravenwolf]

It took me a while but i finally caught on, yep i will admit to being a little slow, this Mormon and polygamy thing was started by the Mormons them selves, they know men well enough to know that if most men think that polygamy is still going on in the Mormon Church they will flock to the Church like ducks to water but shh, they need to keep it from their wives until they get established in the Church.

[Colofornian]

You say God had nothing to do with it which may be right but that does not change the fact that Abraham and Jacob are the Patriarchs of what has become the Christian faith, i do not think they would have been if God had counted Polygamy as an abomination.

David slept with Bathsheba -- already married to someone else. So because David is spoken so well of in Scripture -- even spoken well of in the book of Acts...will you go out on the same limb and say God didn't/doesn't count adultery as an "abomination" either?

See...you confuse the righteousness of the man with the reality that God's power and God's faithfulness can still work through a weak man!

Moses committed manslaughter. In effect, so did David. So are you going to justify manslaughter the way you're treating polygamy just because God continued to work through Moses and David?

(Silly Ravenwolf)

I also noted you didn't address my Hosea example. So a godly man whose wife is prostituting herself -- and the man remains married to the wife -- is not an "abomination," either in God's eyes because, hey, after all, Hosea is a prophet who gets his own book in the Bible???

...she did the same things that a wife would do...

And Bathsheba did the same things a "wife would do" with David...so what? (Adultery is now justified, too?) Wow! You're logic has been well-evacuated!

Furthermore...how many times did David sleep with Bathsheba while she was already married to someone else?

(You can't answer it, can you?)

Why is that relevant? Because we don't know if Bathsheba slept with David more than what caused her to become pregnant. And the same is true with Hagar and Abraham.

David sleeping with Bathsheba -- once or a few times -- didn't make Bathsheba David's wife anymore than Hagar sleeping with Abraham did.

If Hagar was a true "wife," why is Abraham still referencing her as "your slave" after he slept with her? (See Genesis 16:6)

Why does the Angel of the Lord reference her as a "slave of Sarai" in Gen. 16:8? Hasn't she been "promoted" from slave girl to "wife" by now?

(I suppose when we get to heaven, you can lecture the Angel of the Lord -- some of who say is the pre-incarnate Son of God -- about why He didn't pay Hagar more respect by acknowledging her upwardly mobile social status)

...she was given to him by Sarah...

Let's say, (if you weren't very ethical)...
...you and your wife hosted an illegal alien as your housekeeper (say, you told her that her very room and board was her "pay");
...And if her freedom was limited by no friends and no ID.
...And if your wife decided that she would give her housekeeper to you as your "wife" for a night...
...Tell, us, what "rights" do you think this housekeeper might feel she would have to say "no" to your wife?

So, even though she might feel she cannot say "no," in actuality, your wife would have no REAL authority to give her housekeeper to you. Sarai had no authority to give her slave away as a sexual bed partner or even as a wife; and part of that was because a slave cannot say "no" to whatever sexual arrangements are being established.

Jacob had two wifes and two concubines, the father had the right to give away his daughters

(Yeah, I can just imagine you going into your dark Bridal chambers in the Appalachian hills of the Hatfields and the McCoys...sleeping with a virgin who you think is your wife, only to emerge to find out it was her sister...and the shotgun-wielding father approaches you about having slept with his daughter...saying "Nobody's going to marry her now. She's yours." What covenants and "social arrangements" are you going to honor in that situation?)

[Colofornian]

Deut. 17:17: A man shall not take many wives or his heart will be led astray.