When Mormons use the term “saviors” to describe other Mormons, it’s not a “figurative” or “spiritual” usage:

“When living persons are baptized for the dead, they literally become saviors to others…” (Part of chapter entitled, “How to Become a Savior on Mount Zion: Duty Lesson 12” p. 223 1974-1975 When Thou Art Converted, Strengthen Thy Brethren Study Guide 1974)

In light of an agreement made by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints not to baptize Jewish holocaust victims, to comply... ...or not to comply. That has been the Jewish-Mormon issue over the years.

The Canadian Jewish News ran an article, Baptizing deceased Jews against Mormon policy: spokesperson in the Summer of 2010. In that article, a member of the Mormons’ High Council in Santa Monica, Calif. (Mark Paredes), was cited as a representative for the Mormon church on speaking on Mormon-Jewish relations.

Paredes was quoted in that July 2010 article as saying there is “99.99 per cent” compliance today with the 1995 memorandum of understanding that was signed between the Mormons, formally the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Jewish leaders. A few years earlier, it had come to light that some Mormons – Paredes says it was only eight – had submitted the names of tens of thousands of Jewish Holocaust victims for what Mormons call “proxy immersions” for the dead.

Paredes, who until recently was the executive director of the Zionist Organization of America’s western region, said, “No one thinks that more than a handful of Mormons, out of nearly 14 million [worldwide] continue to defy the church’s policy [on proxy immersions].”

If the Mormons didn’t think all of their following could obey them, then why offer such an agreement to begin with?

Paredes, the Mormon representative, claimed that Mormons have “never” been permitted to “baptize” the dead beyond their own ancestors? Yet even Lds “presidents” of the church have done that!!! Lds "prophet" Wilford Woodruff baptized 100 different people from John Wesley to all but 3 U.S. presidents and 56 Declaration of Independence signers in the late 19th century.

“The dead will be after you, they will seek after you as they have after us in St. George," assured Woodruff. "They called upon us, knowing that we held the keys and power to redeem them. I will here say, before losing, that two weeks before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, ‘You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized for it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God.’ These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and they waited on me for two days and two nights…I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon brother McCallister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men, making one hundred in all, including John Wesley, Columbus, and others; I then baptized him for every President of the United States, except three; and when their cause is just, somebody will do the work for them.” (Wilford Woodruff, Sept. 16, 1877, Journal of Discourses, 19:229)

So were these Declaration of Independence signers, past U.S. presidents, John Wesley, Columbus and others converted to Mormonism beyond the grave?

Per Paredes, the Mormon representative, he claimed that the Mormon practicing of baptizing dead spirits by proxy is “highly inaccurate to refer to proxy immersions as ‘posthumous conversions,’ ‘making Mormons of the dead, etc.’” (July 2010, Canadian Jewish News)

Paredes’ take was interesting. Because if the Mormons – whose goal is to convert the dead -- thought they were already saved, we wouldn’t have Mormon leaders talking as if they and the rest of the Mormon church were new saviors of the world, now would we?

Mormons like to frame their temple actions toward the dead – practices such as... ...baptisms, ...ordinations, ...washings and anointings, ...endowments and sealings -- as proxy means of simply giving dead spirits a “choice” in the afterlife.

The problem with this revisionism of Mormon history is this is not the way some earlier Mormon “prophets” framed this temple activity.

For example, Wilford Woodruff, the same Mormon “prophet” who began halting Mormon polygamy, claimed past-tense redemption via such baptisms of the dead, saying “I have had some thousands redeemed here.” How does he know they were “redeemed” if they still had to choose? Did the dead communicate with him?

“You have had power to…redeem your dead. A great many of you have done this, and I hope all of you will continue as long as you have any dead to redeem. Never cease that work while you have the power to enter into the Temple…I have had some thousands redeemed here. I have had baptisms, ordinations, washings and anointings, endowments and sealings for them, the same as if they were standing in the flesh themselves...I held the keys of their salvation…” (Teachings of Presidents: Wilford Woodruff, pp. 191-192)

Woodruff was one truly obsessed with the dead: “There is hardly any principle the Lord has revealed that I have rejoiced more in than in the redemption of our dead…” (Teachings of Presidents: Wilford Woodruff, pp. 192-193)

The string of Mormon “prophets” of John Taylor, Woodruff, Joseph F. Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith certainly heavily inculcated the idea that “saviors” of the dead were plural – and they weren’t talking about Jesus Christ as being “THE” Savior of the dead!

And, unlike the Bible, which places a definitive “THE” before Jesus Christ as THE Savior (John 4:42; 1 John 4:14), Mormon “prophets” have long and consistently preached that the Mormon churches produces “saviors” – plural! (Lds often cite Obadiah 21, which the KJV renders as "saviors"; the NIV makes it clear that these "deliverers" are there to govern the mountains of Esau; not become proxy saviors taking Jesus' role as Savior of the World!)

Lds “prophet” John Taylor: " ...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163)

Taylor: "We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to be saviors for them by being baptized for them in the flesh, that they may live according to God in the Spirit” (LDS "prophet" John Taylor, March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)

Lds “prophet” Wilford Woodruff: “…YOU will be recognized as Saviors upon Mount Zion…” (Teachings of Presidents: Wilford Woodruff, p. 189, 2004)

Woodruff: “WE become saviors on Mount Zion as we build temples and receive saving ordinances on behalf of the dead.” (Teachings of Presidents: Wilford Woodruff, p. 187)

Lds “prophet” Joseph Fielding Smith: “... mortals have to be saviors on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (LDS "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 325)

Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith: “Teach your children and let yourselves be taught the fact that it is necessary for you to become saviors upon Mount Zion…” (Joseph F. Smith, Teachings of Presidents: Joseph F. Smith, p. 412, 1998)

Joseph F. Smith: “…WE have a certain work to do in order to liberate…they…are unprepared for eternal life: we have to open the door for them, by performing ordinances which they cannot perform for themselves, and which are essential to their release from the ‘prison-house,’… (Joseph F. Smith, Ibid, p. 410)

The Christian counterclaim is that Jesus Christ has already done that, minus any ritual mumbo-jumbo performed in a man-made temple. Jesus said His personal temple – one that would zero in on death – and the only real temple worth anything regarding salvation – was the temple of His body (John 2:19-21). That body was laid on the cross. He liberated us and opened the door; we are free to walk out of the “prison-house” of our sin nature, bondage to this world, bondage to Satan, bondage to a fear of death, etc!

Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith emphasized that not only do Lds need to perform “every law and every requirement of the (Mormon) gospel” for themselves, but for the dead as well:

“No man can enter into the Kingdom of God but by the door and through the means that Jesus Christ has offered to the children of men. … Not a soul that has ever lived and died from off the face of this earth shall escape a chance to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. If they receive it and obey it, the ordinances of the gospel will be performed for and in their behalf, by their kindred, or their posterity in some generation of time after them, so that every law and every requirement of the gospel of Jesus Christ shall be carried out, and the promises and requirements fulfilled for the salvation of the living and also for the salvation of the dead.” (Teachings of Presidents: Joseph F. Smith, p. 307, 1998; original source “Latter-day Saints Follow Teachings of the Savior,” Scrap Book of Mormon Literature, 2 vols. 2:561-562).

In other words, Jesus’ proxy blood didn’t fulfill the “requirements” and debt-payments and falling short of fulfilling the law. Mormon proxy sweat labor has to fulfill that. And for how many of the dead of history?

“The work of saving the dead has practically been reserved for the dispensation of the fullness of times, when the Lord shall restore all things. It is, therefore, the duty of the Latter-day Saints to see that it is accomplished. WE cannot do it all at once, but will have the 1,000 years of the millennium to do it in. In that time the work must be done in behalf of the dead of the previous 6,000 years, for all who need it.” (Lds “prophet” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:166)

I don’t get it. You use the word “literal” - what on earth?

Here is MORMONism's own creed:

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

Was a bunch of MEN sitting around deciding on the most politically expedient expedient.

I'm glad you settled THAT conundrum!

"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)

Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

Worship how you see fit, and allow others to do the same.

That's tellin' 'em!!

Acts 17:18-19
18. A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
19. Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

Acts 18:11
So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

1 Corinthians 4:17
For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

1 Corinthians 11:2
2. I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, just as I passed them on to you.

Ephesians 4:14-15
14. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
15. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.

1 Timothy 1:3-4
3. As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
4. nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

1 Timothy 1:7
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 Timothy 2:7
And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

1 Timothy 4:1-2
1. The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

1 Timothy 4:6
If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

1 Timothy 4:11
Command and teach these things.

1 Timothy 6:3-5
3. If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4. he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5. and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

2 Timothy 1:13
What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:15-17
15. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
16. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
17. Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17. so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Titus 1:11
They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

Titus 2:1
You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

Titus 2:15
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

Hebrews 13:9
Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

2 Peter 2:1-3
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

2 John 1:10
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

How many Mormon threads does this make for you today?

I'm still waiting to read the threads posted by FR mormons providing sourced articles regarding mormon beliefs.

I'm sure there are plenty of occasions where mormon leaders contradicted the statements shown in Colofornian's posts, right? Let's see them instead of the constant whining and ad hominems.

Mormonism's Demands of Christians

They demand that Christians not only recognize them as equal, but are expected to grant them equality while the non-Biblical doctrines and practices and denial of Christian beliefs are to be NOW (under the Mormonism Affirmative Action rule), left intact even though they have been inimical to settled and accepted Christianity since the inception of mormonism by Joseph Smith.

Mormonism not only demands a "seat at the Christian banquet table", it demands to set the menu, control the guest list, collect the funds from the ticket sales, and choose its own non-Biblical unedited and false message from its chosen speaker, all the while whining about being persecuted.

Paredes, the Mormon representative, claimed that Mormons have “never” been permitted to “baptize” the dead beyond their own ancestors?
__________________________________________

He can “claim” all he wants to

but it has happened time and time agtain...

My ancestors are not the ancestors of the ones who have scoured the cemetaries and taken their names from their well kept tombstones...

or got their names from military rolls or from books of transcribed church records...

This is such an evil ghoulish practice...

I turns my stomach to know that not only were my Christian ancestors dead dunked into Mormonism...

But also many of the Jeweish victims of Hitler were also along with Hitler himself...

How sick and perverted does this practice of necro-baptism get ???

How would Tommy Monson like to be dead dunked into Anism or Islam ???

The Issue of The Mormon Baptisms
of Jewish Holocaust Victims And Other Jewish Dead

The wrongful baptism of Jewish dead, which disparages the memory of a deceased person is a brazen act which will obscure the historical record for future generations. It has been bitterly opposed by many Jews for a number of years. Others say they will never stop being Jews, simply because there is a paper saying they had been baptized, that the act of posthumous baptism is unimportant and should be ignored. We think this to be a narrow, parochial, and shallow view. We will continue opposing this wrongful act which assimilates our dead to the point where it will not be possible to know who was Jewish in their lifetimes.

A protest drive initiated by Jewish genealogists escalated it to a nationally publicized issue that was followed by public outcry. American Jewish leaders considered it an insult and a major setback for interfaith relations. They initiated discussions with the Mormon Church that culminated in a voluntary 1995 agreement by the Church to remove the inappropriate names. Activists continue to monitor Mormon baptismal lists, seeking removal of inappropriate entries.

Has the church done anything to uphold its decade-old agreement with the Jewish community? The bad news is that the Mormons did (and still do) hijack Jewish genocide victims and other Jewish dead. Moreover, when a Jew is baptized, the door is open for all of his deceased ancestors to be baptized as well. Regrettably, their baptismal records place before the public a revisionist view that these deceased Jews were Mormons, a position they would have rejected in life.

A commentator on this topic said that anti-Semites who desecrate Jewish cemeteries want to destroy even the memory of Jews by breaking their tombstones and other symbols whereby we honor and remember them. He concluded that baptism of the Jewish dead is just a more sophisticated form of breaking tombstones.

A blogger wrote: "I don't buy the argument that it's done for selfless reasons. It's not selflessness, it's arrogance. And especially in light of the Mormon Church's agreement in 1995 to stop baptizing Holocaust victims, it's even more reprehensible for them to continue the practice. If a church can't be trusted to keep its word in a matter such as this, then where is its moral standing?"

We want to say this to all well-meaning Christians: We don't want to be saved, redeemed, forgiven, reincarnated, resurrected, or enraptured. We just want to be left alone. After 2000 years -- is it so much to ask?

In 1995 the LDS Church and representatives of the Jewish community signed the agreement described at the beginning of this article. Jews have objected to the continuing Mormon practice of wrongful baptismof the Jewish dead, especially in the case of Holocaust victims, claiming that the practice mirrored the forced baptism of Jews in the middle ages.

A decade later this wrongful practice, which demonstrates a disrespect for Jews and Jewish feelings, has not ended. Because of public objections, the Church did remove names of thousands of Jewish holocaust victims from the IGI. However, they continue the baptismal ritual that hijacks Jewish forebears. Names of thousands of baptized Jews have not yet been expunged from within the growing Church records while new victims continue to be added. Removed names often reappear at a later date. Their practice of turning dead Jews into Mormons is a brazen act that may obscure the historical record for future generations. One hundred years from now, will anyone know who you were?

We urge the Church to:

Comply with the 1995 agreement.
Cease the ongoing wrongful baptisms of the Jewish dead.
Constitute a task force to search and expunge from all baptismal records, all wrongful baptisms of the Jewish dead.

Link

Today is my grandmother’s birthday (my mothers mother)

Although shes been dead for 50 years and died a well documented Christian no doubt she was dead dunked into Mormonism...

On my fathers side I have found his grandmother who died in 1945 and some of her forbears back a bit...

The Mormons have some erroneous info on this lady, my great grandmother, but they have refused over the years to change their records...

Regardless of the fact that I have correct and official documents they claim they never make any mistakes...

Members of her family have also been dead dunked, endowed, married, and sealed all the way dfown to all living descendants...

Since this happened to one of them in the 1950s and I was already born, that made me a living descendant, a Mormon according to the Mormon beliefs...

Well i dont want to be a Mormon...so that now makes me an “apostate”...

and that destines me to the Mormon so called “outer darkness”

SIGH

See how much easier it is just to believe in the REAL God...the LORD Jesus Christ and Him crucified ???

Wait a minute? I can baptized for the living as a well...breathing and now symbol of LDS? When did this Shiite happen? Why was I not consulted about a decision so important? What information is required for LDS “members” to do this?

Actually, if we take the statement from this BYU prof (Daniel Ludlow, editor of the prolific Encyclopedia of Mormonism) below literally
-- a word which apparently some Mormon posters like Saundra Duffy have trouble understanding
-- then your observation is quite astute, Vendome!

“Perhaps the most unique thing about our temple ordinances," wrote BYU professor Daniel H. Ludlow, “is that they can be performed for the dead (those who have lived on the earth during earlier periods)
as well as for the living (those living on the earth now).
Such ordinances as baptism, the reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost, and temple marriage are performed in our temples for the dead and the living.”
Source: Selected Writings of Daniel H. Ludlow: Gospel Scholars Series, p. 365

So. Per this BYU "scholar":
(1) the most unique thing about Lds temple ordinances
(2) is they can be performed for the living & the dead
(3) This includes such ordinances as baptism and temple marriage
(4) To quote him: "Such ordinances as baptism, the reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost, and temple marriage are performed in our temples for the dead and the living"

Hmmm...

If proxy baptisms & temple marriages can be performed for the dead, then of course it's only "fair game" that proxy baptisms & temple marriages can be performed for the living. Hey, Ludlow the BYU scholar says so!

And as for your insinuations, Vendome, that this is some kind of "infringement" upon you or somethin' *(Your Shiite reference & "Why was I not consulted about a decision so important?"), who are you to stand in the way of the salvation and eternal marriage of your own soul?

Oh, and btw, if a Mormon Smithesque "prophet" comes along in the future, and says Mormons can perform temple proxy honeymoon "endowments" in the future (especially for the more well-endowed)...you're not to complain about that, either, if you find a Mormon bride & if some Mormon dude becomes a honeymoon proxy "stand-in" for ya.

After all, to use the Niemoller analogy:
First they came for the dead to baptize them,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't dead.

Then they came for the dead to have them married on the other side of the veil,
and I didn't speak out because I still wasn't dead; besides, I was already married.

Then they came for the Jewish holocaust victims,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jewish holocaust victim.

Then they came for my bride at honeymoon time,
and the Mormons made sure no Gentiles were allowed in the Mormon temple to speak out for me.

Now I have a favor to ask of you: Would you repeat your same comment -- placing it @ this thread posted Oct. 30: Mormons even marry the dead by proxy (Vanity: The OTHER World Series

The reason is that the Ludlow quote is actually part of the vanity posted on that thread...and, since it discusses Mormon temple ordinances, is quite relevant there!

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Articles of Faith

The Issue of The Mormon Baptisms of Jewish Holocaust Victims And Other Jewish Dead

The Issue of The Mormon Baptisms
of Jewish Holocaust Victims And Other Jewish Dead