Posted on 10/19/2011 2:40:04 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
Q. In the Old Testament, the terms "Israel," "Jacob," and "Jew" all seem to clearly be applied to the grandson of Abraham, the son of Isaac, the man Jacob and his physical descendants (Gen. 32:28; 35:10). But in the New Testament, the terms "Israel" and "Jew" are used in passages which are more difficult to understand which some interpret as teaching that faithful Gentiles are described as "Israel" or "true Jews" (e.g., Rom. 2:28-29; 9:4; Gal. 6:16). Can you shed some light on this?
A. I believe that much of the confusion concerning the use of the term Israel in the New Testament - and especially whether it refers to believing Gentiles - can be cleared away by recognizing that although, consistent with its use in the Old Testament, the term always denotes those who are physical descendants of the man Jacob, there are also passages where the writer desires to call attention to a subset from within the physical descendants of Jacob who also share the faith of father Abraham. Here are some principles to consider when reading such passages:
Who Is a True Jew?
A key distinction which must be kept in mind is to notice that the New Testament never refers to Gentile believers as the seed of Isaac or children of Jacob. Instead, those who are of faith are sons of Abraham (Gal 3:7-9,29). This is because we Gentiles who believe participate in the unconditional promise which God gave to Abraham, In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed (Gen. 12:3 cf. Gal. 3:8). The way in which the Gentiles participate in this promise is through their identification with Abrahams descendant Jesus, having believed upon Him by faith. Instead of being sons of Isaac or sons of Jacob, our relationship as Gentiles to the New Covenant covenant goes back to its very source in the promises given to Abraham who is called the father of all those who believe (Rom. 4:11) - both believing Jews and believing Gentiles (Luke 19:9; Rom. 4:11-18). This is the root of the cultivated olive tree into which believing Gentiles have been grafted and unbelieving Jews have been cut off (Rom. 11:16-18). [2]
After warning the church of Philippi concerning unbelieving Jews, where Paul is emphasizing that true circumcision is of the heart, the most he will say is we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Thus Paul contrasts spiritual circumcision of the heart by faith with physical circumcision, an external rite which in and of itself does not produce saving faith. If there was ever a passage where Paul could clearly redefine Israel to mean believing Gentiles this is it, yet he does not go that far. Even here, Paul is not really teaching anything new because this theme is strongly taught within the Old Testament (e.g., Deu. 10:16; 30:6; Ps. 119:70; Jer. 4:4; 9:26; Eze. 36:26; 44:7).
I hope this helps to clarify the way in which the New Testament addresses the issue of physical descendants of Israel verses Gentiles who are children of Abraham by faith - but still Gentiles (Gal. 2:12,14; Eph. 3:6).
Endnotes:
[1] Concerning the believing remnant, see 1Ki 19:18; 2Ki 19:4; 2Ki 19:30; 2Ki 21:14; 2Ki 25:22; Ezr 9:8; Ezr 9:15; Isa 1:9; Isa 6:13; Isa 7:3; Isa 10:20-22; Isa 28:5; Isa 37:4; Isa 37:31-32; Isa 46:3; Isa 59:21; Isa 65:8; Jer 5:10; Jer 5:18; Jer 23:3; Jer 44:28; Jer 50:20; Eze 5:3; Eze 5:12; Eze 6:8-10; Eze 9:8; Eze 9:11; Eze 11:13-16; Eze 12:6; Eze 14:22; Joe 2:32; Mic 2:12; Mic 5:7-8; Mic 7:18; Zec 11:10; Zec 13:8-9; Ro 9:6; Ro 9:27; Ro 11:5; Ro 11:17; Ro 11:25; Ga 6:16; 1Pe 1:1; Re 12:17
[2] A common error in interpreting this passage is to mistake the cultivated olive tree with its root as denoting Israel such that believing Gentiles are joined to Israel. But the root concerns the promises made to Abraham as the father of the faithful. Also, unbelieving Jews who are called Israel in this passage are broken off from the tree with its root. Thus, the tree and its root cannot be Israel.
you are correct in the sense when Jesus comes again, every eye will see Him in all His glory and everyone will know He is the Messiah. No NT will be required. no faith will be required. the only difference is that day will be judgement day and it will be too late to turn to Him for forgiveness of your sins. now is the day of salvation.
Supposedly the term used until then meant a person who lived in Judea,many of them were from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin with some priestly Levites in the mix. The word used to describe them was Iudeceans and was so clumsy and awkward that the translators decided to use the term Jew.
In Judea there were also Greeks,Romans and various and sundry others and the term was not exclusive to the Old Testament religious Israelites from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
Since Jesus said He came to find the lost sheep of the tribes of Israel I think it's probable that multitudes can and are the lost sheep who traveled to other lands,were conquered during wars,lost the faith and,or were assimilated into other nations and culture.
I think we will all be much better off when this dawns on mankind.
I am sorry but human sacrifice is forbidden. Blood sacrifice is not required. Dying on a cross is not a sacrifice...it is suffocation. His blood was not sprinkled on the horns of the altar. His fat and ofal not burned. Etc....not a sacrifice.
please read Isaiah 53.
the animal sacrifices were types and shadows pointing to the One Sacrifice that reconciles us to the Father.
Read it hundreds of times. It is not about Jesus. There are several mistranslations of the Hebrew that make it "appear" to be about him but it is not.
types and shadows pointing to the One Sacrifice
That cant be. Again...G-d forbids human sacrifice. Look what G-d says about it.
(Israel) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them (the pagans), after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the Eternal thy God: for every abomination to the Eternal, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. [Deuteronomy 12:30-31]
God calls Human sacrifice something that He hates, and an abomination to Him
In Jeremiah, God tells us that Human sacrifice is so horrible a concept to Him, that it did not even come into His mind!
Jeremiah 19:4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents; They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
Same thing in Psalm 106 and in Ezekiel 16
And yet we are to then turn around and believe that God changed His mind, and required human sacrifice, and then it was the sacrifice of His own human son that God wanted? G-d hates it, it is an abomnination, so horrific it never enters His mind.... but then G-d copies the pagans? Acts like a pagan? After telling the Jews to stay away from pagan practices, and pagan beliefs, God then changes His mind and says, "Okay, now go ahead and believe in a human sacrifice, just as these very pagans believe?" NO! Animal sacrifice was not a shadow or type. Read Ezekiel 44. The sacrifical system is returning. Why? If Jesus was THE sacrifice. Answer: He wasnt a sacrifice..G-d hates human sacrifice.
H/T Reb Federow
I am in rural country(cows & corn all around me) with no true ecclesia to join in. A couple in the the city not far away say they are but have yet to cast off pagan traditions so I do my best by myself to celebrate at home with extended prayer, wonderful Hebrew inspired music & study time in The Word. I worship live online every weekly Sabbath & when the Festival services are aired live. Otherwise I catch the Festival services after they are posted so I do not miss out on any learning YHVH sends out to the nations.
I did purchase a copy of the Siddur & Mishnah from Art Scroll to help guide me in Sabbath rest, Festival worship & daily living. They have been a wonderful tools that I have come to cherish. But I do not just stick to Hebrew books, I welcome any & all wisdom from my brethren in the house of Judah that will add to my understanding of the Scriptures that was kept blind for so long. Rabbi Daniel Lapin, Jeremy Gimpel & the Temple Institute have helped me greatly.
Shalom! Shalom!
This is why I will not join an ecclesia that does not adhere to what YHVH instructed. This practice of conversion to any religious sect goes against every word of the Scriptures. Hold fast to your faith & your heritage. YHVH has your back!
Shabbat Shalom!
Excellent!...you’re in good hands...:o) Awesome to hear! Baruch HaShem...
One day it will be revealed by YHVH that the Scriptures were Genesis to Revelation with no division what so ever between the front and the back. And when HE starts teaching HIS children that were lead astray, they are going to find themselves immersed in Genesis through Deuteronomy, just as it has always been if one wants to enter the gates of HIS Kingdom. What a shock that is going to be to them!
How will you know to recognize HIM? How will you know when to be looking for HIM? How will you know when judgment day is here?
Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
1 Thess 5: 1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, Peace and safety! then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
It is not our brethren in the house of Judah that are in darkness. They are the ones who are the sons of light that we are to be learning from lest we find ourselves as those that persished in the days of Noah.
Love Mel Brooks!
Jer 3:8 I saw that even though backsliding Isra’el had committed adultery, so that I had sent her away and given her a divorce document, unfaithful Y’hudah her sister was not moved to fear - instead she too went and prostituted herself.(BUT was NOT given a certificate of divorce because Judah remained in covenant)
NT worshipers do not understand because they do not study or practice Torah. They have no clue what it means to be our of covenant because they have never entered in to the covenant due to the lies of the fathers which their hearts refuse to see. Christian doctrine is the reason Paul has such a bad reputation among the house of Judah. But who was Paul really talking to? Pagans or lost sheep who were out of covenant?
Rm 7:1 Surely you know, brothers - for I am speaking to those who understand Torah - that the Torah has authority over a person only so long as he lives? 2 For example, a married woman is bound by Torah to her husband while he is alive; but if the husband dies, she is released from the part of the Torah that deals with husbands. 3 Therefore, while the husband is alive, she will be called an adulteress if she marries another man; but if the husband dies, she is free from that part of the Torah; so that if she marries another man, she is not an adulteress.
Paul wasn't talking to pagan goyim, he was talking to his out of covenant Jewish brethren. Period. Jewish Brethren who were not allowed past the 3 ft wall of separation because they were well aware of the Levitical laws of divorce. Pagans could have cared less about a Jewish Messiah, let alone want to join themselves to HIM.
Jer 16:19 "ADONAI, my strength, my fortress, my refuge in time of trouble, the nations will come to you from the ends of the earth, saying, “Our ancestors inherited nothing but lies, futile idols, completely useless.”
NT worshipers delude themselves into believing religious leaders never lie about the origins of their religious doctrine(that has no foundation in Torah) & therefore they have no reason to study or practice the instructions & commands in Torah.
I think we better let Paul speak for himself
Rm 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? What is the value of being circumcised? 2 Much in every way! In the first place, the Jews were entrusted with the very words of God. 3 If some of them were unfaithful, so what? Does their faithlessness cancel God's faithfulness? 4 Heaven forbid!...28 Therefore, we hold the view that a person comes to be considered righteous by God on the ground of trusting, which has nothing to do with legalistic observance of Torah commands. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, he is indeed the God of the Gentiles; 30 because, as you will admit, God is one. Therefore, he will consider righteous the circumcised on the ground of trusting and the uncircumcised through that same trusting. 31 Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting? Heaven forbid! On the contrary, we confirm Torah.
King James version of the NT says "confirm" means "establish". Isn't this the exact opposite of "abolish"? Now if YHVH speaking as "adam Yah'shua" said HE did not come to abolish Torah and Paul confirms this and is still teaching Torah almost 30 years after "adam Yah'shua" died; I do not think it is Paul who had the comprehension problem.
if you belong to Christ, you are an heir to the promises made to Abraham. if you reject Christ, you will die in your sins
I know I am being redundant here, but it seems to be slipping in one ear & out the other, thus it bears repeating...
Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments. He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.
1 John 2:4 He who says, I know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
It is NOT the house of Judah who has a covenant problem. They may not understand the the new covenant added to the earlier ones(change to the Priesthood that was placed in their care at the base of Mt Sinai) but they have NEVER been out of covenant. And most importantly, YHVH does NOT expect them to understand until HE Himself tells them because they have ALWAYS known who their Messiah is.
Is that a big “LOG” I see in your eye?.
Luke 6:42 How can you say to your brother, `Brother, let me remove the splinter from your eye,’ when you yourself don't see the log in your own eye? You hypocrite! First take the log out of your own eye
And quit trying to convert my Jewish brethren! It is not they that are the ones who are out of covenant
In any case, English is just one of many languages into which the Greek and Latin terms for "Jews" were translated. The Greeks had Ioudaioi and the Romans Iudaei. I don't know what the corresponding Hebrew or Aramaic terms are. It starts with the tribe of Judah inhabiting a certain territory, but turns into the term Ioudaioi, Iudaei, Juif/Juive, Jew, etc., as a term for followers of the religion of the Israelites regardless of where they live, or more recently of non-believing descendants of those believers who have not joined another religion.
Doesn't matter what a Jew, or a Catholic, or a Protestant thinks of it...What a bible believing, born again, Spirit led child of God fulfilling the comand of God to 'study the scriptures' is what is relevant...God reveals these things in the scriptures...
God wrote the Ten Commandments according to Moses...Jesus spoke the red letter words in the NT according to John and the others...Paul wrote the thoughts and instructions of the Risen Lord Jesus according to the writing of Paul the Apostle...
It all comes down to faith regardless of what Testament you are in, except for that one annoying little verse (to some) in the NT:
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
What then will it take???
The land DID belong to the Christians - for a few hundred years - by right of conquest from the Muslims.
Now the land belongs to Israel - by the right of conquest - the only universally recognized deed of ownership.
Actually...it doesnt come down to faith. That is why the word faith only appears like 2 times in the KJV OT and the highest is 19 times in the NIV OT.
What do I mean? When the law was given at Sinai, it was a national revelation. It took no faith because millions heard the word of G-d.
The Torah states (Deuteronomy 4:9-13):
(Moses told the Israelites:) Only beware for yourself and greatly beware for your soul, lest you forget the things that your eyes have beheld. Do not remove this memory from your heart all the days of your life. Teach your children and your children's children about the day that you stood before the Lord your God at Chorev (Sinai)...
So you approached and stood at the foot of the mountain. The mountain was burning with a fire reaching the heart of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and mist. God spoke to you from the midst of the fire; you were hearing the sound of words, but you were not seeing a form, only a sound. He told you of His covenant, instructing you to keep the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.
It took no faith...they saw it with their own eyes. They heard it with their own ears.
So it will be when messiah comes. When you look at what the messiah must do...must accomplish...they are clear and exclusive to one person. The ingathering of the exiles...the rebuilding of the temple...the universal knowlege of G-d...World peace...Restoration of the Priesthood and the Davidic line...These are exclusive events that when accomplished by messiah will be known and witnessed live on tv throughout the world. It will take no faith. And since it will be brought about by a messiah in one human lifetime, we will know he is the one. AND most importantly, NO ONE can be "crowned" King Messiah unless he HAS...past tense..accomplished ALL these tasks...No partial credit! Otherwise, we could be looking at another false messiah.
When you look at the 300 or so prophetic claims that Jesus "fulfilled" they are usually verses about David, not messinaic at all or taken completely out of context. Others could have been fulfilled by anyone. Riding a Donkey into Jerusalem...anyone could do that....Bringing world peace? That is exclusive. Rebuilding the Temple? That is exclusive..
Jesus did not fulfill any exclusive messianic duties...hence the need for the second coming. There are actually others like Bar Kochba that came closer than Jesus in fulfilling messianic prophecies....maybe Bar Kochba will return and finish the job! No, It is not like that. They will be done the first time. One human lifetime and then the messiah will die a normal human death. Not a divine god-man hybrid.
This strange person starts a thread on Free Repub;ic titled, “What is a True Jew?” and expects some idiot backwoods ignorant preacher to be taken seriously?
Come on! This is Free Republic! Hundreds of thousands of people read it every day. This sort of thing makes Free Republic a laughingstock.
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