When attending Mass becomes an occasion of sin

To Renew America ^ | August 20, 2011 | Matt C. Abbott

[markomalley]

From Jim Baltrinic (slightly edited):

'This post consists of excerpts from a letter I wrote to the pastor of a Catholic parish about a certain incident that occurred at his church. I have omitted all references as to the church's location. The church is semi-circular in design, and we were sitting in the last pew near the center isle, which afforded us a clear view of almost the entire congregation. I started my letter with a compliment as to how nice the newly-remodeled church looked. I then ask the pastor to please consider the following hypothetical situation.



'A priest enters the confessional for the usual Saturday morning or afternoon confession time. During this time a young man enters the confessional. 'Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned.' From the sound of the voice on the other side of the screen, the priest surmises that the person is a teenager or young adult. The confession continues: 'It was a week since my last confession. I'm guilty of many lustful thoughts, and I looked at some very immodestly dressed women more times than I should have.'



'The priest asks, 'Were these impure thoughts related to these women you looked at'?



''Yes,' replies the young man.



'The priest: 'Why did you continue to look at them? Why didn't you go someplace else, away from them?'



''I couldn't,' said the young man. 'They were in front of me and I was kind of hemmed in by the crowd.'



'The priest: 'Why were you in such a place to begin with? Do you remember that we are to avoid places that may be an occasion of sin?'



'The young man answers, "Yes, Father, I know that, but I had to be there.'



'The priest, somewhat puzzled, then asks: 'Why did you have to be there, and where were you: at the beach; at a sporting event?'



''No, Father,' said the young man, 'I was at your noon Mass last Sunday, and two scantily-dressed girls were sitting in the pew right in front of me, along with their parents. I couldn't move because my parents were on either side of me.'



'While I said that the above story was hypothetical, in reality it is not. The Mass in question took place this past July at a prominent Catholic parish in a town my wife and I were visiting. It was the main Mass of the day and the church was quite full.



'The young man in the confessional could have been any one of the many young men in the church. The two 'scantily clad' girls were real and were sitting about six pews in front of us with their parents.



'From the area where we were sitting, we observed, in addition to the two girls mentioned above, approximately a dozen very immodestly dressed women, with the majority of these being young girls in their teens and early twenties. Bare backs and shoulders, low-cut tops, strapless sun suits, short shorts, mini-skirts and tight-fitting tops were plainly visible.



'Two years ago, at a parish in northern Virginia, we experienced an almost identical incident at Sunday Mass. We were sitting in our pew when a home-schooling family came in and took a place several pews ahead of us. They had two sons around age 10 and three younger daughters. A few minutes later, two young girls, of about the same age and manner of dress as the two described above, came in and sat in the pew directly in front of this family. However, in this case, the parents quickly recognized the spiritual danger these two improperly dressed girls posed for their children, and they immediately got up and moved to another part of the church.



'It is a sad state of affairs when going to Sunday Mass becomes an occasion of sin. I could go on with more such examples, but I think what I have said is sufficient. What we find more lamentable is the fact that, in many cases, such young girls are in the company of their parents. What does this tell us? Simply this: When it comes to modesty in dress, most parents don't have a clue as to what is right.



'Coincidentally, several days later, as I was about half-way through the composition of my letter to the pastor, my wife saw a notice in the bulletin about appropriate dress in church. The notice was good, especially the part about adults giving good example for young children. It did, however, have two shortcomings which are common to such notices. Many times a bulletin notice can be overlooked, and secondly, the notice called for wearing 'appropriate attire.'



'The problem, as I pointed out above, is that most Catholics have a very poor understanding of what 'appropriate attire' means. When it comes to knowing what is or isn't modest, they have no idea. This is because the Church has been silent on this subject for over 40 years.



'At the beginning of summer there should be a strong sermon on this issue with a clear explanation as to what constitutes 'appropriate attire.' This should be followed up with at least a verbal reminder given once a month from the pulpit. Putting an occasional notice in the bulletin just doesn't do it. It should also be emphasized that the standards for modesty apply to everyday dress, not just in church on Sunday. Mention should also be made about the way many parents dress their little girls in skimpy outfits, thus accustoming them to immodesty at a very early age.



'In regard to this particular topic, I feel I'd be remiss if I failed to mention the disgraceful display of immodesty exhibited by brides and their bridal parties at most Catholic weddings today. At a wedding we recently attended, the comment was made that the bride and bridal party looked more like the Playboy Review than an occasion of Holy Matrimony.



'Let me close with the following thought. Someone once asked the mother of St. Maria Goretti how she was able to raise such a [holy] child. She replied, 'By teaching her the virtue of modesty.' How many Maria Goretti's are parishes and Catholic schools producing today?'

[Jeff Chandler]

Everything is God’s creation, even the fact that women can make men look at them with lust.

There is a time and a place for everything. Mass is time to focus on the Creator, not His creatures.

[NoDRodee]

If you feel they are in sin by dressing immodestly it is your responsibility to bring it up to them, nobody else’s.

You cannot go to the Pastor or Preacher, If you feel one is in sin you must address it with them in private 1st, then 2 or 3 witnesses, then bring it to the Church if it can be resolved. In all cases you may find you are making wrong judgment or they are in sin, If after this it is not resolved the Church should withdraw from them (if they are in sin and refuse to change)and you won’t have the problem any longer.

[OpusatFR]

“Everything is God’s creation, even the fact that women can make men look at them with lust.”

Men and women do regard each other with lust. Does lust contain the elements that will lead to charity, love and careful regard for the other person’s best interests physically, emotionally and spiritually?

Lust is a result of our fallen nature. It is a corruption of love and the desire to join and procreate.

Sex is a fantastic gift to us. Not even the angels have been given this gift. Between a husband and wife sex is a wonderful, playful, enjoyable part of marriage.

Lust reduces what should be joy and love to an encounter, perhaps roommates-with-benefits or a tumble in the afternoon because you wanted sex or had the itch rather than what sexual pleasure was meant to be for humans.

It’s like eating. There’s nothing like a great meal at a good restaurant with family and friends. Christ apparently liked to meet and eat with many people.

Gluttony leads to big fat people and gross habits. The woman in England attempting to read a ton or so is committing a sin, but in our civilization, no one dares mention that word: sin.

What God created is wonderful. What we do with it is corrupts it and turn it into something other.

If you have ever had a sexual encounter or encounters with different women you dated casually, was it because you cared for them or just because they really looked smokin’ hot? (I don’t expect an answer. Just for your own consideration.)

[the808bass]

There are “hoochies” and there are “choochies.”

Hoochies are immodest women, often with accompanying low morals.

Choochies are females who dress inappropriately for church, wearing things that might not bring a second glance in another context, but are inappropriate for church wear.

[ArrogantBustard]

Yes, I believe that Lust (Using definitions 2&3 at the link) is sinful, particularly when mentally "wallowed in". Likewise, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, and most particularly Pride are sinful.

I'm not clear on what, if any, credence Jewish people give to anything in the Holy Gospel According to St. Matthew. I gather it's not much, though ...

[ArrogantBustard]

BTW, do you believe that lust (again, by the definitions 2&3 in my previous post) is sinful? Do you believe that anything is sinful? Do you believe that "sin" is in any way a meaningful concept?

[LetMarch]

Just look in the Holy Scriptures at the definition of sin!

1. “A high look and the plowing of the wicked is sin.” (Prov. 21:4)
2.”The thought of foolishment is sin...” (Prov.24:9)
3.” .....for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” (Rom.14:23)
4.”Therefore to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” (James 4:17)

5.”Whosoever committeth sin trangresseth also the law, for sin is the trangression of the law.” (1 John 3:4)
6.”All unrighteousness is sin....” (1 John 5:17)
The Apostle Paul gave us a very instructions and warnings, in 1 Corinthians 11:17-34 as to how we take part in “The Lord’s Supper.” He said; “As oft as take the cup, and eat this bread, ye do shew forth the Lord’s death till He come.”
We are warned: “If we eat this bread and drink this cup unworthly, ye shall be guilty of the body and blood of Christ.”
“For this cause amny are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”

Hebrews tells us; “If we are His children, He chastens us, that we might be partakers of His Holiness. And without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.” (Hebrews 12:3-15)

[SuziQ]

I understand what you're saying, but frankly, it's also incumbent upon the parents of teenagers to expect a certain level of dress when attending Mass. It isn't a soccer game, or a social outing; it is the celebration of the sacrifice Jesus made for us on the Cross, and care SHOULD be taken in how one dresses for it. I'm not saying that women need to come in dresses, hats and pantyhose; I certainly don't wear them. It is possible to dress modestly, without looking like a prude, and I think it's right to remind people, from time to time, of why they are there.

If they're planning to go somewhere else, afterwards, they can bring along their shorts and change into them after Mass. And if they're wearing a tiny tank top, they can certainly put a short sleeved shirt over it.

I think the author is right; most parents just don't think about it, because no one is telling them what 'appropriate attire' means. Might be a good idea for the Religious Ed. directors to include something about proper dress for Mass in the curriculum for the kids, and pass that information along to the parents. It can be worded in a positive way; the suggestion is to dress as though they're going someplace special, not just down the street to a pool party, and suggestions about what is IMPROPER can be made at that time. Educating the parents will help them choose correctly, and will come as second nature to the kids as they get older.

I don't have a problem with flip-flops or sandals, short sleeved or sleeveless shirts, or even pants or capris on women. I do have a problem with midriff baring, skin-tight tank tops, or short shorts with messages imprinted on the behind on women, or t-shirts with messages like "Coed Naked Volleyball", on men.

Yes, we want the young people in Church, but remember, even Jesus told the parable about the man being invited to a banquet, then getting thrown out, when he was found to be in improper dress. The man wasn't showing the proper respect for the occasion, and neither are the people who come to Mass in all manner of inappropriate clothing.

[stuartcr]

OK

[Pyro7480]

It's Matthew 18:6. He's warning about leading others to sin.

With regards to Adam and Eve, you're talking about prior to the Fall.

[stuartcr]

I agree

[stuartcr]

I didn’t know that about angels. You’re lucky to know so much about them.

[stuartcr]

Are there degrees of lust, or is it automatically a wallowing experience?

[stuartcr]

I do not believe in sin, in the context that it is an offence or affront to God. By man’s definition, it seems that almost anything can be a sin.

[stuartcr]

Yes, I understand the Bible describes many sins. Not all believe the Bible is the actual word of God.

[ArrogantBustard]

1) Sin goes from bad to worse. There's no "good sin".

2) If you think that lust is not sinful, you disagree with Jesus of Nazareth. That's your choice, but to call His teachings "man’s definition" more or less takes you out of the category of "Christian". FWIW. Again, your choice.

[OpusatFR]

“Yes, I understand the Bible describes many sins. Not all believe the Bible is the actual word of God.”

In that case, our discussion is moot.

God bless and have a great week.

[stuartcr]

I call it man’s definition because men actually wrote it.

[ArrogantBustard]

I call it man’s definition because men actually wrote it.

OK.

Out of curiosity, do you think they quoted Jesus of Nazareth correctly? Do you think they quoted Him at all? Do you think they fabricated the quote? Do you think they fabricated Jesus of Nazareth?

BTW, while there's nothing amiss with "It's wrong because God said so", there is another angle from which to consider the problematic nature of lust. Lust treats its object as a mere thing, to be used for one's personal gratification. It is a perversion of Love, which treats its object as a person to be cherished and built up, and to be a partner in a mutually beneficial relationship. FWIW. If you think it's OK to treat people as things, that's your choice. Others might find it interesting or valuable to know that you harbor that attitude, though.

[Craftmore]

Nowhere in that verse does the word “scandalize” appear.I believe Jesus says,,whomsever causes one of these little ones to sin,,,Nothing about scandalize.He was twisting Gods word and making up quotes to serve his own argumant.
Just because Adam and Eves attire or lack therof was before the fall doesnt change my question which you failed to answer.Did God see thier attire before the fall proper?And did God create clothing for them after the fall,,for thier benefit or His?They were the ones who said they were naked,,not God.In fact,,He asked them,,Who is it that told you,you were naked?
Does nudity in and of itself cause sin? Is it the viewer or the viewee?