Posted on 07/04/2011 10:00:42 PM PDT by TheDingoAteMyBaby
The debate among evangelical Christians over Darwin's theory of evolution has returned to front stage this summer with the publication of two separate cover stories on the issue by leading Christian magazines.
In its June cover story, Christianity Today reported on how Christian proponents of Darwin are challenging historic beliefs about Adam and Eve.
Now Christian news magazine World has announced that it will name two books critiquing "theistic evolution" as its "Books of the Year" in its upcoming July 2 issue. World called the evolution debate in churches and religious colleges "the biggest current battle both among Christians and between Christian and anti-Christian thought."
One of the two books honored by World is God and Evolution: Protestants, Catholics, and Jews Explore Darwin's Challenge to Faith (Discovery Institute Press, 2010).
The book's editor, Dr. Jay Richards, commented, "We wanted to clear away the fog and fuzzy-thinking on this issue. Our book makes clear that to the degree theistic evolution is theistic, it will not be fully Darwinian. And to the degree that it is Darwinian, it will fail fully to preserve traditional theism."
God and Evolution features essays by Protestant, Catholic and Jewish scholars critical of the growing effort by advocates of theistic evolution such as Francis Collins to persuade leaders of the faith community to change their theology without hearing from scientists who are skeptical of the claims of unguided Darwinian evolution.
"Over the past couple of years, Collins has convened large closed-door meetings of evangelical Christian leaders to convince them to embrace theistic evolution," said Dr. John West, who wrote the first two chapters of God and Evolution.
"These gatherings intentionally excluded any scientists who were critical of Darwin's theory of unguided evolution. Collins has said that he wants to foster dialogue on this issue, but excluding scholars who dissent from Darwin from the conversation is a recipe for monologue, not dialogue."
For more information visit www.faithandevolution.org
SOURCE Discovery Institute
I'm assuming that is a rhetorical question....
How long was a “day” prior to the existence of an Earth?
God will laugh at you.
God does not care how what we believe, about how life began.
God only cares about how we live our individual lives.
“Do not put the Lord, your God, to the test” Jesus to Satan.
I suggest to you that we should never fall into the atheists’ trap of claiming that science disproves our Faith in a living God.
You have fallen into that trap when you take the Bible, written for purposes of Faith, and abuse it for purposes of science and history.
The Bible is theologically true.
Science is science, and scientifically true.
There is no contradiction.
It is a mystery to us mortals, at this time, but all will be made clear, later.
It is foolish to put God to the test.
So I read the news. And I looked around at human society as it is in this year of the Lord 2011. And I said to myself:
“If this bunch is the best we could do after millions of years of evolution...we’re [screwed].”
“A “day” measures the time it takes for the sun to rotate on its axis.”
(I assume you mean the time it takes for the EARTH to rotate upon its axis).
God defines “day.” He said He created light, I quote:
Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. (Genesis 1:3)
So, that was the first “day.” It was the light of the first period of time, divided by the darkness. Nothing about the spin of an axis.
Now, the next “day,” as defined by God:
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. (Genesis 1:6-8)
Light; darkness; in the meantime the firmament (heavens) is formed, the waters collected. Another day. No apparent spinning of an axis, as there is still no earth.
We get the earth on the third day, I quote:
“Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the third day.
It is on the third day we can have an axis, as we now have an earth. A busy day, really, the seas formed and all the plants. Now we are spinning, presumably. 24 hours, approximately. It is still called a day.
And since then and ever since then a day has meant about a 24 hour period of time, with a period of sunrise and a period of night.
No evolution could have been possible until the 3rd day, anyway. There were no living things, except God Himself, until then.
“God does not care how what we believe, about how life began.
God only cares about how we live our individual lives. “
If He did not care there is no reason for Him to have spelled it out for us. His writing down about His acts of creation is evidence that He does care. Why reject what He has written?
The point is that God was and is the Creator.
HOW He did it would be far too complicated for Him to explain, even with all the memory or space in the largest Internet server available. How would you do such a thing in a short “Book” ?
CynicalBear: “Are you saying that parts of scripture are irrelevant to us today?”
No. I’m saying Bible-believing Christians can (respectfully) disagree over the meaning of certain passages, like the creation story in Genesis, without affecting their fellowship with each other. Real truth exists, but our understanding of scripture as mere mortals is not perfect. Otherwise, how can one account for differences of opinion among believers?
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness...
Once saved always saved, pre- or post tribulation, full immersion versus sprinkling, young Earth or old Earth, etc. I’ve heard reasonable, scripture-based arguments for various conflicting opinions. I read, study and reach my own conclusions. I try not to let non-salvation doctrinal issues interfere with my relationship with other Christians.
Let me tell a quick story. I’m a Christian (neither Catholic or protestant), but I was raised protestant. I always heard about how bad Catholics were, that they believed a lot of things not supported by scripture. While doing some charity, I got to work with and have many discussions with nuns. Suffice it to say I don’t like all the Catholic ritual, but I’m certain the Catholic church contains real Christians. That may seem a funny thing to say, but there are protestants AND Catholics who are not Christian.
I see Christ’s church as one—undivided and pure. He knows his own, and they know Him. Members of His church aren’t separated by doctrine or different opinions about Bible verses. I think some Christians forget we’re all on the same team here.
I may hold a little harder line then you do when it comes to Catholics. Praying to Mary or any other then Jesus is totally contrary to scripture.
Of course Christs church is one and includes true believers who happen to attend many organized churches or no organized church at all. Where two or three are gathered.
“Human beings wrote the Bible.”
I must disagree with you, Kansas58. When we say the Bible is “inspired,” we mean, literally, “God-breathed.” We confess that the Bible in its original language is error free and not the work of man.
As to translation, I do agree, we have translated it into many languages. However, I don’t think there is any assertion of any major error and it has been studied more rigorously than any other document ever. No one who speaks Hebrew, for example, asserts that the creation account is mistranslated.
“The point is that God was and is the Creator.”
I am glad you confess that, but how do you know that, if you think the Bible is an error prone document written by men?
It would seem to me that if one already accepts as factual the New Testament account of the virgin birth or Christ’s resurrection, it’s no problem to accept the Genesis account of creation.
Besides, the PURPOSE of the text is also important.
The THEME of Genesis is what matters, GOD is the Creator! There is no possible way that God could explain, at the time of Moses, DNA, cell structure and microscopic biological functions.
“Dust” and “Humus” or dirt, the remains of DEAD organisms, was the closest God could come at the time.
Yes, the Bible is INSPIRED but it is not perfect.
To claim otherwise is to be an Idolater, and your Idol is the Bible.
This is a silly, silly argument.
There are people who believe in evolution who will make it to Heaven.
There are people who believe in Creation without any Evolution who will go to Hell.
The issue does not matter to God, and has nothing to do with the final home of your Soul.
The Bible has NO sense of itself, and never speaks of itself.
That didn't go down too well, so he tried a comeback 15 years later by blaming everything on Darwinism, initially using recycled stuff from US creationists and later making up his own and adding an Islamic twist.
Bottom line: he's a nutcase.
“Not a single Author, of any single Book of the Bible, ever foresaw that the entire “Bible” would ever exist.”
God is the single Author, and He of course knew and foresaw that all of the entire Bible would exist. He knows everything.
“The Bible has NO sense of itself, and never speaks of itself.”
Wow, so many verses to give in response to that. A few off of the top of my head:
“Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.”
(Psalm 119:105)
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
(2nd Timothy 3:16)
“This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.”
(John 21:24)
“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he (Jesus) expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”
(Luke 24:27)
“And he (Jesus) came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.’ And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
(Luke 4:16-21)
Scripture routinely testifies that it is the word of God. From Genesis to Revelation, constantly, by the prophets and the priests and the kings and the apostles, the various books of the Bible are declared to be the word of God, thus saith the LORD, etc.
Blond hair and blue eyes are a mutation.
I’m ok with that.
“it amazes me that you have no trouble saying that all of the people involve with scripture reported everything, transcribed everything, and translated everything PERFECTLY!”
Yet it is not the men who were perfect, but God, who preserved it perfectly.
Jesus quoted all the Old Testament as authoritative. He made no qualifications. From his temptation in the desert (he quoted Leviticus to Satan!) to - yes - creation (referencing God making Adam and Eve as he opposed the Pharisee’s teaching on divorce) - and throughout His earthly ministry, He quoted Scripture, taught Scripture, preached from Scripture.
In Matthew 19 Jesus references God’s creation of Adam and Eve as the reason divorce is not lawful:
“And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17-18)
“The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.” (Isaiah 40:8)
The Bible is not an idol. It is God’s word and should be treated as such.
“The issue does not matter to God, and has nothing to do with the final home of your Soul. “
I think questioning the veracity of God’s word puts your soul in danger. If our doctrine needed to be perfect to get us into heaven, then none of us would get in. However, to question the truth of God’s word is a serious sin that leads to every other sin under the sun.
What did the serpent say to Adam in the garden:
“YEA, HATH GOD SAID???”
The first temptation: questioning the word of God.
And amazing the number of people quite willing to hear nutcases. Never ceases to amaze me the foolishness people will give ear to.
The big question I have for you is, why would God create the universe with the appearance of old age? Who is he trying to fool?
Doesn't the Bible teach the Heavens reveal the presence of the Creator, who was before the beginning which surly is longer ago than 6,000-10,000 years.
God may have placed Adams soul in his body in one day, but turning clay into a living creature most likely took more than a seven day week. My problem with the seven day creation is that people think God had a quickie plan of creation which keeps them from seeing the true expanse of space and time that God operates in.
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