11 Surprising Things You Didn't Know About Mormons

Business Insider ^ | 2011

[Colofornian]

...The church's assets are thought to be worth more than $30 billion.

...The church reportedly receives more than $5 billion in tithes every year.

The church also has substantial real estate and for-profit business investments, managed by Deseret Management Corp. The company is one of the largest owners of farm and ranch land in the U.S. It owns the country's largest nut producer, AgReserves, Inc., the 14th largest radio chain, Bonneville International Corp...

Economic entrepreneurialism is...part of Mormon doctrine — 88 of...112 revelations received by... founder Joseph Smith deal with fiscal matters.

SNIP

The Twilight saga is actually about the Mormon belief in eternal marriage.

The Twilight series, by Mormon author Stephanie Meyers, is an allegory for the Mormon concept of "celestial marriage" - the belief that a couple that is "sealed" in a Mormon temple will stay bound together forever...

Edward and Bella's bond is sealed when Edward bites Bella. As with a Mormon marriage, there's no turning back for Bella, who is transformed into a vampire for eternity.

SNIP

The Mormon church thinks polygamy might be okay in the afterlife.

...(the official Mormon church)...still believes...the divine principle of plural marriage may apply in heaven. In the case of death or divorce, Mormon men can be sealed to another wife and all of their celestial marriages will be honored in eternity.

The LDS...tried to distance itself from...40,000 fundamentalist Mormons who still practice polygamy...

SNIP

Mormons wear special undergarments called a "temple garment"...designed to give "protection against temptation and evil."

Many Mormons believe the underwear provides spiritual protection.

SNIP

Mormons believe that when Jesus returns, he's coming to the U.S.

Mormons believe...all the...Christian churches fell into apostasy...

...Jesus will personally return to reign over a paradisaical Kingdom on earth. His headquarters will be at the...temple in Jackson County, Missouri...

[reaganaut]

How IS John 1:1 full of rage?

[reaganaut]

Lying to ones self is always present in those who use lying as a means to avoid things.

- - - - -
Worth a repost.

Hey did u see where he said I was full of rage and mentally ill because I said John 1:1 countered LDS theology?

It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

[Tennessee Nana]

I start at the beginning of Matthew and read all the way to the of Acts and start
_________________________________________

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The Christian biblke starts at genesis...

When I was 8 i won a prize for singing unaided and completely through...the Books of the Bible song

The 1st word of the song was Genesis

It still is

Let me help you

In the beginning God Genesis 1:1A

See God was there in the beginning

Not a mormon council sitting in the pentehouse in the sky but God Himself

and no Daddy god.

In the beginning God made Heaven and Earth Genesis 1:1

and so the scarlett thread that starts in Genesis continues throughout every Book of the Old Testament...

Now the New and final Testament

In the beginning was the Word (God) John 1:1

Well the mormon council still hasnt shown up

but that precious scarlet thread is still moving...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

Nana are you trying to tell this poor unfortunate kid thatr Jesus showed up, God come in the flesh

and STILL the mormons hadnt got a quorum to have a council meeting ???

Mormon sure muck around in a fuddle while God just goes ahead and gewts things done

and done right... the 1st time

No need for seconds or do over or slipsies

or “restorations”

God does it right

gets it right

and for all time and forever

OK Nana

what did God do ???

You want to know grasshopper ???

OK

Inb the beginni9ng God...thats Elohim...plural.. the Trinity...God the father God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit

All three are mentioned in verse one and separately in the next few verses

But you have to read the Bible for yourself to find that out

So go ahead

its good nurishment for your starving soul

Now having established that the Word was right there In the beginning

and then when God ...spoke...again the Word...

W@e see that John has repeated and clarified the 1st few verses of Genesis in the 1st chapter of his apistle

In the begininning was the Word John 1:1a

see how exciting thast verse is ???

If someomne was a bit iffy on the fact that Jesuys is God and has ALWAYS existed, they get that confusion cleared up right there...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

The word WAS God...

Jesus IS God...

Well dont lets stop there

we arent being threatened and brow beaten by some old stupid VT in here...

we can read as much as we want

and just for fun !!!

He was with God in the beginning John 1:1

So then the LORD Jesus Christ did not start out as a baby in the manger...in the New Testament in Matthew and Luke

He was back there in Genesis 1:1

Well lets just read it all...

John 1:1-19

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He was with God in the beginning

Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.

In Him was life, and that life was the light of men.

The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

(There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.

He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through Him all men might believe.

He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world

He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

He came to that which was His own, but His own did not receive Him.

Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—

children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of Grace and Truth

John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’”

From the fullness of His grace we have all received one blessing after another.

For the law was given through Moses; Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made Him known

Now this was John’s testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was

John 1:1-19

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Just in those few verses, John proves that the LORD Jesus Christ is the Word of God...IS God...

[Tennessee Nana]

The NT has 27 books all together, not the 5 referred to here by Ben. That is unless the Gospels and Acts were books NOT covered by the instructor.
_________________________________________

The visiting teacher has materials for partific days

with the mormon version of the Bible...

I would think Pauls books would be avoided

Too hard to explain away

Hebrews would be out of course

and forget Revelation..

Other than James which the mormons can twist

Peter and John are much too Christiany for mormon taste

and how to explain Jude ???

Building up your most Holy faith praying in the Holy Ghost Jude 1:20

Suddenly an insignificant part of mormon doctrine is front and center and involved in praying...

ERROR ERROR ERROR

and so it goes

[reaganaut]

Nana, what are you doing up in the middle of the night? (*scolds gently*)

[Colofornian]

...you MUST know that bishops do not get paid...

I already said (my last post) that they don't (any longer) get paid other than possibly reimbursements for travel expenses.

(Can’t speak to the 30s and before, but based on the appalling state of church finances at that time, I bet not then either).

(If you're betting, based upon the sure knowledge I have that at least stake clerks were getting stipends as of 1934, guess what? You'd lose...)

How do I know that stake clerks were getting stipends as of 1934?

#1 Elder Boyd K. Packer gave a devotional address 10/15/06 @ the Marriott Center where he mentioned "Brother Kimball" having served as a "stake clerk" for 19 years. Packer said, "In those days the stake clerk received a small stipend..."
#2 In that message Packer specifically says that Kimball served dual roles for a time -- both as stake clerk and as second counselor -- and that Ballard made him choose between one or the other. Kimball chose the paid-stipend position, the stake clerk. Packer said in that message: A sister, who knew him well, wrote and said, "Spencer, I'm surprised at you--to take a calling just because there is money involved." Then she said, "If you don't change your attitude, within two months, you'll apostatize from the Church."
#3 I checked Kimball's bio of both when he was a stake clerk -- and that covered 1918-1938 -- but was even more specific as it said he was second counselor from 1924-1934 -- and it was 1934 when he chose stake clerk and was relieved of his second counselor role. Source:http://lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.jsp?leader=12&topic=events

See...how does it feel to make claims about church leaders & stipends & be wrong on that despite all that supposed "inside" knowledge you have?

When I gave you that 10% tithing figure going to bishops re: my last post, I don't know when bishops stopped receiving that. It happened sometime in the 20th century...I've said I don't know when it stopped -- and apparently you don't seem to know, either. If you find out, let me know.

I found one purely anecdotal source How many Church Leaders receive a 'stipend'...? that claims the 70 Presiding Bishoprics are part of the 854 overall church leaders who receive a living allowance/stipend/salary (whatever game-playing people want to call it).

Do you know for certain that these 70 Presiding Bishoprics don't receive funds from the Lds church today? All the sources I've seen include them as well as Mission Presidents as ones STILL receiving funds from the Lds church hierarchy -- in addition to receiving a house.

As for the $40,000 figure I cited, I cannot find my original notes on details. So I simply did further research on any similar $40,000 figures.

What I came up with did not apply to Lds bishops' stipends -- but rather a second-tier Lds Seventy. The year? Not 1993 as my post says; but 1983.

The Source? The Wall Street Journal, Nov. 9, 1983.

Here's an Lds discussion on salaries/stipends of Lds General Authorities that took place in 2007: Are GAs paid salaries or stipends?

According to an Lds poster of post #44 @ bycommonconsent.com: The Wall Street Journal article in question (“Leaders of Mormonism Double as Overseers of a Financial Empire”) reported that Paul H. Dunn’s “church salary is $40,000 a year.” This statement is made in the course of a discussion about Dunn’s connections to Afco Enterprises, a real estate venture which collapsed in 1982. Dunn resigned from the board of directors in 1978, but he apparently maintained ties to the company until 1982. The reporter cites court records in a civil suit involving Afco, so that may be his source for the salary figure. (Dunn gave a deposition in the case.)

Of course, Paul Dunn was a disgraced Lds General Authority who told complete fabrications about so-called war years and a pure fantasy Major League career.

Technocrat, what also interests me is that if you claim to be so "close" to having financial knowledge of the goings-on re: the Lds church -- since you've challenged the veracity of my claims, why haven't you likewise challenged the veracity of MonkeyFace's claims she made on post #19? She said: Ninety-nine percent of the LDS churches leaders, in any capacity, are independently wealthy. They have to be: The LDS church does NOT pay them a salary.

Is that true that Lds leaders are not paid?

Answer: No. It's blatantly false -- and that includes whatever games people want to play about how to label those funds. And you of all posters should know that, right? We both know that the First Presidency, both quorums of the Lds general authorities, and mission presidents all receive funds from the Lds church, right? And we both know that also at one time included Lds bishops & stake clerks, right?

The Lds poster "California Condor" @ commonconsent.com (Are GAs paid salaries or stipends? -- post #25) posted the following [GA = General Authority]:
Here’s what I found on the Internet:
GA Class of 2007: Year-end bonus 35K, no special bonus
GA Class of 2006: Year end 35K, special 10K
GA Class of 2005: Year end 40K, special 15K
GA Class of 2004: Year end 45K, special 20K
GA Class of 2003: Year end 50K, special 30K
GA Class of 2002: Year end 55K, special 40K
GA Class of 2001: Year end 60K, special 50K
GA Class of 2000: same as 2001
These bonuses are on top of GA salaries beginning at $160,000 for first-years, $170,000 for second-years, $185,000 for third-years, $210,000 for fourth-years and so on and so forth.

Those are pretty significant numbers, would you not say?

And before you launch into the Lds apologetic of false distinctions "living arrangement reimbursements" vs. "salaries" take note of the following comments:

Other Lds posters' comments from bycommonconsent.com were also of interest:
* RonanJH wrote: "2. For the life of me I cannot see any qualitative difference between using stipend/salary/allowance in this case. 3. Given that we do pay our full-time officials, I think our rants against other churches who also pay their full-time ministers, are lame. (Post #15)
* Poster "we" wrote :The 1040s of GA’s have W-2s stapled to them just like other employees. They report amounts paid as “Wages, tips, other compensation” to employees. Dress it up any way you want. In the context of broad US culture that is the way it is and I see no need for perfume. (Post #194)

Finally, for anybody who wants to see how one talk show handled this topic, here's an 8-minute YouTube clip: No Paid Clergy?

[Elsie]

In short, I ‘studied’ myself out of Mormonism.

Well, Bubba; THER's yer problem!!

---

Acts 26:24

New International Version
At this point Festus interrupted Paul's defense. "You are out of your mind, Paul!" he shouted. "Your great learning is driving you insane."

King James Bible
And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.

[Elsie]

I came to Christ and left Mormonism because an ‘anti’ ticked me off enough to try to prove him wrong.

Thanks for the testimonial!

--The Chief Ticker...

[Elsie]

So, if u die tonight, where will YOU spend eternity?

DUH!

THAT's an EASY one!

Either in the...

Celestial Kingdom or
the Telestial one,
or the TERRESTRIAL!!

Gosh!   I better pass my TR review THIS year!)

[Elsie]

You can’t deal with the insult.

Ah...

Therapy from afar.

Tell me, Doctor, just WHERE did you acquire your degree?

[Elsie]

No of course not, just more ad hominum attacks from a cult that can’t support their own teachings.

---

D&C 71:1 

1 Behold, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon,

that the time has verily come that it is necessary and expedient in me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel,

the things of the kingdom, expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures,

according to that portion of Spirit and power which shall be given unto you, even as I will.

 

---

Nah....

It's a LOT easier to just try to annoy folks with childish name calling.

[Elsie]

Are you STILL eating meat this summer?

[Elsie]

The reason I ask is RLDS has changed and discarded a lot of Smith’s teachings....

Who HASN'T???

The SLC bunch of 'mormons' sure do NOT follow what the early LDS folks did!

It seems that a NEW Joseph Smith needs to come along and RESTORE it!

[Elsie]

The reason I ask is RLDS has changed and discarded a lot of Smith’s teachings....

Who HASN'T???

---

Today, there are as many as 100 organizations claiming to be a part of the Latter Day Saint movement, most centered in Utah or Missouri. Most regard their own group, however small, to be the only legitimate Christian church. Most of these organizations are very small, but overall, but the second largest denomination, the Community of Christ, reports over 200,000 members.

• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a.k.a. The Church of Jesus Christ, and the LDS) is by far the largest Mormon denomination. It is a continuation of the "Rocky Mountain Saint" branch of Mormonism.
• The more liberal Community of Christ (formerly called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) is second in size. It is a continuation of the "Prairie Saint" movement. Although generally referred to as "Mormons," they do not use the term themselves, because of its association with polygamy and because they believe the name was not part of the original church.
• Many additional small Mormon faith groups, including:
  • Aaronic Order: unknown membership; 6 centers; 20 ministers
  • Apostolic United Brethren: about 7,000 members. They disagree with the LDS' decision to allow ordination of African-Americans and allowing women to assume leadership positions.
  • Church of Christ (Fetting/Bronson): about 2000 members
  • Church of Christ (Temple Lot): about 2400 members
  • The Church of Christ "With The Elijah Message," established anew in 1929 12,500 members worldwide
  • Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite): about 2700 members
  • The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: about 11 million members
  • The Community of Christ: about 250,000 members. This denomination was formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints -- the "RLDS Church". It was formed in 1860 by remnants of the original church who did not make the trek to Utah. They reject certain beliefs and practices of the LDS church, including marriage sealing for eternity; they allow both men and women into the priesthood; their services are open to the public. They have about 250,000 members.
  • United Order Effort: a polygamy practicing group, excommunicated by the main LDS church, of perhaps 10,000 members
  • The Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It split from the Reorganized Church in 1991 because of the latter's liberal theology. It is centered in Independence, Missouri, and had an estimated membership of 2,500 in mid-1996. They publish a periodical "The Restoration Advocate" six times a year

[Elsie]

I’m thinking BYU troll.

If so; it must be a really OLD one; for who today knows ANYTHING about Ben Hoan?

Let alone enough to be a FAN!

[Elsie]

(Maybe HULK Hogan...)

[Elsie]

We are not afraid to discuss our beliefs in the slightest. (Post #13)

Just like D&C 71:1!!!

[Elsie]

We are not afraid to discuss our beliefs in the slightest.

Just not ABLE to do so!

[Elsie]

We are not afraid to discuss our beliefs in the slightest.

The 'slightest'...

Yup; that about sums up the total response so far.

[Elsie]

I am pretty sure that Praise to the Man was in the earlier ones but I have no idea if Kolob has ever been used by them.

It only takes me a twinkling of the eye to post...

 

 

Praise to the Man!

 

 

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

 

 

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

 

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

 

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

 

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.