Posted on 06/24/2011 3:11:41 PM PDT by NYer
There is No Grey Zone with this statement
How to witness to Jehovah’s Witnesses—see www.faithfacts.org, then go to the World Religions and Theology section for article.
Lol, that’s how I came up with my name. I have always been told I have no “gray zone”, still am.
Diplomat, I am not.
the keep knocking on my door..The sad thing is that I first found out about the document “Donum Vitae” from a copy of The Watchtower that was given to me by one of them and did not ever read about it in my diocesan newspaper, to this day!
**I’ve known some bad ones and a few good ones. My sister’s sister-in-law (ex), who was a practicing JW her entire life is now Roman Catholic.**
I have a good friend who also left the Jehovah’s Witnesses and is now a Catholic!
What amazes me is the number of people who can read that and not only not realize it refers to the rapture, but vehemently argue with anyone who points it out. Luke 21 is even more specific.
of course the Watchtower org is what formed the J’s after the translation of the Bible by Taize
I'll give them this also -- they are honest to admit who they are and what they believe, which also would put many to shame.
As people, as individuals, leaving aside their beliefs, the ones I met were all very decent, humble, devout people.
1889 "The ‘battle of the great day of God almighty’ (Rev 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . " (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
1891 "With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy" (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
1894 "The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble" (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).
1916 "The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873" (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).
1917 "Scriptures . . . prove that the Lord’s Second Advent occurred in the fall of 1874" (Studies, Vol. 7, 68).
1918 "Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old" (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures than 1914" (WT, 9-1-1922, 262).
1923 "1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge" (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).
1925 "The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year" (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).
1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the dates 1914, 1918, & 1925 . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates" (Vindication, 388, 389).
1946 "Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972" (They Have Found a Faith, 44).
1966 "Six thousand years from man’s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E" (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 29).
1968 "The end of the six thousand years of man’s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date" (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).
No one can say they've not been persistent. Consistent, no, but persistent, yes.
but yet, the rapture is not central to salvation, is it? Serious question.
It’s not central in and of itself. I’m perfectly content to let various claims slide that are not in direct contradiction to scripture because it’s not specific enough to warrant rebuke or correction.
Exceptions would be amillennialism and pretribulationism. Walk amillennialism back and you find replacement theology. That to me is a problem. Israel is Israel and the Jews are His chosen people with whom He has a covenant. That we were grafted in does not alter this or imply that we superceded the Jews in this.
Ardent pretribulationist belief gives me pause because of the pollyannish nature of it, in addition to being contradicted by scripture. It’s not as if we’ve ever escaped persecution as Christians for any great length of time; the modern era in the west likely represents the greatest historical stretch, and it certainly feels as if it’s drawing to a close, sad to say. Those of us alive at that momentous time will have seen at least some portion of the tribulation. Luke’s account in Luke 21 makes this clear. Rapture is not some religious “get out of jail free” card.
That’s where I stand on the matter. There is room for much disagreement and I make room for that with these two exceptions.
thanks for that explanation. I don’t see it as something to really spend much or any time discussing, but that’s just mho. The day will come and we don’t know — we just need to be prepared. What happens after that is God’s plan, so I don’t see any point of discussing it per se, it’s like debating over whether we get wings in heavens or just hover-boards. I’d prefer the later..... :)
Hmmmm, I see a pattern! I wonder how many there actually are.
He certainly makes Himself quite clear.
He is very consistent throughout the Bible. Perhaps the wording is a little different, however; the main point is there, over and over.
I don't think it is. He wants ALL of us; therefore, from what I've read, and understand in my little head, there will be time enough for all "left behind" to be saved, if not already.
There must be saved people "left behind" in order to spread His word and save as many as they can. He did say some of you will die in My name, Luke 21 16-19.
They are no nuttier than other Christian sects. Just have slightly different beliefs. Their problem is that they operate as a cult.
I never even thought about that, sounds right. But I also believe it gives time for those who were not saved, to save themselves, along with the Jews.
The statement is made that in 1889 Charles Taze Russell began teaching that Armageddon was to come in 1914; actually in 1889, Russell was expecting Armageddon to begin around 1910 or 1911 and that it would be over in 1914. Nevertheless, in 1904, ten years before 1914, Russell came to believe that Armageddon was to begin in 1914, and that would end some time after 1914. He died in 1916 with the belief that Armageddon had begun in 1914, although he did not know when it would end.
Russell, however, was never associated with the Jehovah’s Witnesses — no such organization existed in his day. Nor did Russell believe in the kind of Armageddon that the JWs preach. His view of Armageddon was that it was a period of time in which the peoples of the nations would be chastised in preparation for the coming blessings of God’s Kingdom; thus, his view of Armageddon was almost the opposite of that of the JWs.
I believe, and many of other Bible Students also believe, that Armageddon did begin in 1914, and that we are still in it, and may be for many more years. I do not know of any of the Bible Students who believe that Christ returned invisibly in 1914.
BTW, the Bible Students, as a whole — represented by the majority — did not become Jehovah’s Witnesses as it is often stated; by 1930, the greater majority of the Bible Students had rejected Rutherford’s new organization as well as his new gospel, thus they never became members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization.
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