All hail the King, Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ!
Posted on 06/21/2011 3:51:29 PM PDT by NoGrayZone
Okay, here's the deal in a long story short. I was raised Lutheran, moved out to Long Island and continued to be raised in St. Paul's Lutheran Church.
Aunt Jeannie (my name sake) has been a member since. I decided years ago I wanted back, so I went.
I did not feel Him there, thought it was me. I kept looking around the congregation, thinking it was me. After a while, I realized it wasn't (a couple of things happened after that confirmed it wasn't me).
Anywho, the icing on the cake was my Aunt Jeannie stopped going as well. After almost 30 years she felt the change as well. I looked up our church and saw they were apart of the "accept homosexuals as Pastors" crowd. That was 1 of the things that confirmed it was not me.
But my Aunt Jeannie leaving was the icing on the cake.
Here's our delima. Both of us are July babies. She is the 2nd, I am the 18th. We decided on 7/17 we would find a church to attend (we both want one to belong to and believe in), then go have brunch to discuss.
She is much more open minded than I am, but I promised her I would be open minded, if just for an hour, on that day.
I said to her, during our conversation "how do we know if the "Pastor" is a homo or not. She believes He is with us no matter where we are. I agree....to a point. I don't believe a homosexual can be one of His Shepard's leading His herd if that is so.
There have been so many "demoninations" coming out for homosexual "Shepard's" I have NO idea where to begin.
I have called a few churches and left messages for the Pastor to call back so I can interview Him (no lady Pastors for me).
Any advise to where we can look? Anyone know anything about Presbyterians?
Here are a number of LCMS churches on Long Island, listed roughly in order of distance from your house. I cannot vouch for any of them personally; you would have to check them out online or in person. (You might want to bookmark this post for reference.) I still say the one that looks the most promising to me, based on their website, is Trinity-New Hyde Park.
St. Luke-Dix Hills
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C253111
http://www.st-luke-lutheran.org
Trinity-Hicksville
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C412770
http://trinityhicksville.org
St. Paul-Bethphage
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C78150
http://www.stpaulbethpage.com
Grace-Central Islip
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C143644
Trinity-Islip
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C451380
Trinity-Glen Cove
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C356285
http://trinityglencove.org
Resurrection-Garden City
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C344988
http://www.resgc.org
St. Paul-Amityville
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C23095
http://stpaulsamityville.com
St. John-Williston Park
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C979314
http://www.stjohns-wp.org
St. James-St. James
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C794866
http://www.stjlc.com
Trinity-New Hyde Park
http://locator.lcms.org/nchurches/c_detail.asp?C633562
http://www.trinitynewhydepark.org
Now if you wanted to sail across Long Island Sound, you could go to one of our two churches in Greenwich, Connecticut! ;^) I did my year-long vicarage (internship) at St. Paul-Greenwich back in 1988-89.
The first one is pretty close, in Dix hills. Thank you SO much for your time and effort to help me!!
I just bookmarked the page. Hopefully I can contact the Pastor tomorrow during my lunch hour.
Again, thank you!!
No, Lutherans don't believe in 'con'substantiation nor transubstatiation. While there may be a big difference between the two, neither is Lutheran doctrine.
I’m puzzled by your post. Do you have a source for your claim? Are you a Lutheran? Perhaps I have missed something in my readings about Luther and Lutheranism.
Of course.
Are you a Lutheran?
Yes.
Perhaps I have missed something in my readings about Luther and Lutheranism.
Or the readings about Luther and Lutheranism had less scholarship in them then polemics.
Consubstantiation.
View, falsely charged to Lutheranism, that bread and body form 1 substance (a “3d substance”) in Communion (similarly wine and blood) or that body and blood are present, like bread and wine, in a natural manner. See also Grace, Means of, IV 3.
She's studying to be a pastor. And she studying for this in Warsaw! I was surprised (studying to become a Lutheran pastor in Catholic Warsaw when the Lutherans are only about 2000? Why not in Germany itself?) -- and she told me that the Lutherans here are far more devout than in Germany ..
I am Catholic, and I know that you've ruled it out, so I do believe that a traditional, conservative Lutheran Church that believes in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist would be closer to your heart and beliefs.
As Charles said This church you mention sounds like it does *not* teach the biblical doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ's Body and Blood in the Sacrament. To me, that would be an absolute dealbreaker. I could not in good conscience go to that church, even though it may be good in other respects. -- it may be good in other respects, like the pastor was honest to tell you what he thought. But since you truly believe that Christ is present there, a conservative Lutheran church will be, imho home for you.
I'm glad this thread has had a good ending and hopefully it ends now before we deviate into bickering instead of relating our experiences for you, NGZ.
Amen to that! And thanks for explaining the Catholic religion to me without talking down to me or being nasty about it.
The Lutherans/Anglican communions are far closer to us in the Catholic/Orthodox belief
All hail the King, Our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ!
In the Orthodox Church, we kiss the priest's hand and we also kiss icons. It's all very strange / alien to a newcomer. It's also strange to see folks making the sign of the Cross, bowing and scraping and sometimes laying on the floor during worship.
I had to understand what was behind these strange practices and how they relate to the fullness of the faith.
I guess that I am one of the many.
I've also stood right in front of Vegas dudes that do sleight of hand card tricks and fail to see that as well.
Remember Paul Harvey and "...the REST of the story"?
Acts 15
The Council at Jerusalem
1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] [d] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.
Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas
36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
I wonder why the writer of The Gospel according to Luke failed to mention that one must SURELY believe in 'con' or 'tran' or some other stanciation?
?
Fight?
Is that what "contending for the faith" is to you?
Titus 2:1
You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
Titus 2:15
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
You also asked this but didn't get a lot of answers: “Any advise to where we can look? Anyone know anything about Presbyterians?”
If you're serious, check out the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, the Presbyterian Church in America, and the United Reformed Churches in North America, all of which have congregations on Long Island. I'm including church locator websites for these denominations later in this email.
Stay away from the Presbyterian Church in the USA (PCUSA) which is a large liberal denomination very much like the ELCA Lutherans; there are still some good PCUSA churches but most of the denomination is liberal.
On the two issues you raised, the OPC and URCNA are quite strongly opposed to women's ordination and homosexuality, and the same is true for most PCA congregations as well as the national denomination as a whole, but there are a few problem churches in the PCA that are open to women in ministerial roles other than the pastorate. The Evangelical Presbyterian Church allows women's ordination but is strongly opposed to homosexuality.
Churches vary and I cannot endorse every church in the PCA or EPC, for example. However, in most conservative Reformed or Presbyterian churches, you'll find a simple form of worship with a strong emphasis on the sermon. Most confessional Presbyterian churches place less emphasis on the sacraments than you're used to in Lutheranism, but all will baptize children of believers and most share with Lutheranism a strong emphasis on reverent worship, the sovereignty of God, and the importance of catechizing children as well as teaching adults the confessions of the church.
There are important differences between confessional Lutherans and confessional Presbyterians, but less significant than you'd find between confessional Lutherans and a lot of broadly evangelical churches which may place an emphasis on “exciting worship” and may not place as much emphasis on the sermon or the importance of raising children in the faith. Again, I'm speaking in generalities, and I can think of a lot of Baptist and Campbellite friends whose churches I could easily visit though I could never join their church based on their requirement that I be rebaptized.
Again, you asked... I'm not here to bash other people's churches, but you asked the question about what Presbyterians believe.
If you're willing to drive into Manhattan on Sunday, you may also want to check out Neighborhood Church of Greenwich Village at http://www.ncgv.net , which for many years was one of the very few conservative churches in the Village, and where I was a member for many years. It's not Presbyterian (it's a member of the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference) but shares the same doctrinal position on matters other than church government. Tell Rev. Kirk van der Swaagh “hello” if you visit NCGV.
Here are the church locators for the OPC, PCA and URCNA:
OPC: http://www.opc.org/locator.html
PCA: https://processor.pcanet.org/ac/directory/directory.cfm
URCNA: http://www.urcna.org/sysfiles/member/family/member_directory_search_public.cfm?memberid=303&public=1&reporttype=custom
If you were in a different part of the United States I'd suggest you check out the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (I attend an ARP in Missouri). Most of our churches in New York are immigrant churches whose members speak Korean, but that is definitely not the case for most of the ARPs, so here's the list:
http://www.arpsynod.org/findachurch.htm
For others reading this thread trying to find a Presbyterian church that is conservative, you may want to check the Reformed Presbyterian Church in North America, but they do not have churches on Long Island.
RPCNA: http://reformedpresbyterian.org/index.php?option=com_ps_map&Itemid=53
(BTW, I'm pinging this to the other people on this list who made comments indicating they're familiar with the PCA or other Presbyterian denominations.)
RPCNA is very similar to OPC and PCA, only obvious difference being exclusive acapella Psalm-singing.
On Friday, June 24, 2011 12:54:11 PM ctdonath2 wrote: “RPCNA is very similar to OPC and PCA, only obvious difference being exclusive acapella Psalm-singing.”
I’m guessing, based on being a Southerner who actually has heard of the Covenanters, you might know Dr. Frank Smith of Northminster RP Church in the Atlanta suburb of Alpharetta? If so, tell him “hi” for me.
I’ve never been a member of the RPCNA, but attended an RPCNA when I lived in a different state for several years and now attend an ARP in Missouri. But I don’t want to hijack this thread, which started out with an individual woman asking the important question of where she could find a church.
Yeah - my pastor!
After 377 posts methinks we're not at risk of hijacking the thread with a few tangential posts.
Some Presbyterians do put emphasis on the sacraments, albeit with a different sacramentology than Lutherans. My congregation celebrates the Lord’s Supper every Sunday. I haven’t been to too many Presbyterian churches over the years, but there are some out there that do put emphasis on the sacraments if that’s important to you.
Any updates? You are on my mind!
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