Posted on 03/09/2011 9:34:28 PM PST by the_conscience
Recently we've seen Threads and posts from some that appeal to Protestants and Romanists to put aside their theological differences for the greater purpose to unite against Muslims, homosexuality, and abortion. While in a way this seems to be a noble appeal it glosses over what many consider to be the most important significance, that is, how are people reconciled to God. However, I believe there is a way to which Protestants and Romanists can find common ground without having to diminish their theological principles.
In both Romanist and Protestant doctrines there is the understanding that God operates differently between the Church and the Civil spheres. For Romanists, the doctrine of the Two Swords goes way back in their tradition and even the "stickin Jesuits" understood this. For Protestants, the Two Kingdom theory goes back to Luther himself. It basically comes down to that man lives in two spheres, that of the Church and the future kingdom and that of the earth and the present kingdom. Of course God rules in both kingdoms but rules differently in some way.
In the present earthly kingdom God rules by the laws of nature. Those laws of nature in which God rules his earthly kingdom are known by Christians of all persuasions as the 2nd table of the Law, those commandments that regulate the relationship of man to man. If we were to summarize those laws we could say those laws tell us that man may not coerce or use fraud against his neighbor. Jesus summed this all up as loving your neighbor as you love yourself. Paul tells us in Romans 1 that all persons are aware of these laws through their consciences and despite that some men will still serve themselves to their own expense.
Now we all agree that abortion is an abomination and a direct violation of the sixth commandment but it becomes especially heinous when it is not only allowed by the government but directly supported by it! But let's carefully consider why this is especially heinous. It's one thing for a mother to be able to willingly kill her own child but to compound sins upon sins, when the government is an accomplice in this deed, the very organ which is ordained of God to prevent the killing of another, is in fact encouraging the act, we know the present government has lost it's mandate. We could, and should, understand the implications of this fact.
The important fact that I believe should be kept in mind is that the violations by the government is not limited to merely the abortion issue but to the fact that our present government has abandoned it's responsibility to the love your neighbor principle. The very fact of the matter is that our government has imbued to itself a god-like power to determine the fate of it's citizens. That's certainly not what our founding fathers intended for they fully realized that government itself can be the organ that most violently violates the moral law. If the government no longer protects a neighbor against the coercion or fraud of another neighbor but in fact becomes the worst offender to that evil it is time we stand against that perversion.
So let's stop the appeals to a false theological unity and embrace the natural law unity known to all men that coercion or fraud used against a neighbor, that by individuals, but more importantly for our purposes, those coercions and frauds perpetrated by the government, must be resisted.
What say you?
I think they are looking at Judge to replace Beck as Murdoch has said he wants to tone things down and Beck has been adamant that he walks if he feels pressured not to tell the truth.
Just a statement from Cicero’s Law: (This is the foundation of the US legal system —well, it used to be when our laws were constitutional).
“True law is right reason consonant with nature, worldwide in scope, unchanging and everlasting. We may not oppose or alter that law, we cannot abolish it, we cannot be freed from its obligations by any legislature, and we need not look outside ourselves for an expounder of it. The law does not differ for Rome and Athens, for the present and the future, but one eternal and unchanging law will be valid for all nature and for all times. He who disobeys it denies himself and his own nature.”
It is really quite easy to see that Marxists like zero who thinks nature “evolves” is not compatible with our form of government.
It is also easy to understand why homosexual marriage and abortion is not compatible with our government. They both should be illegal because they go against our Founding documents and legal system.
We need to return to the Constitution and those who think they can ignore the “social” issues are wrong....they are imbedded into our Constitution and morality can never be separated from a document where your rights come from God.
Ted Olson should be disbarred. So should the other Postmodern thinkers who have deliberately turned our legal system upside down into unjust (unequal) political laws that give power to some over others. Utterly unconstitutional.
**Now we all agree that abortion is an abomination and a direct violation of the sixth commandment but it becomes especially heinous when it is not only allowed by the government but directly supported by it! But let’s carefully consider why this is especially heinous. It’s one thing for a mother to be able to willingly kill her own child but to compound sins upon sins, when the government is an accomplice in this deed, the very organ which is ordained of God to prevent the killing of another, is in fact encouraging the act, we know the present government has lost it’s mandate. We could, and should, understand the implications of this fact.**
Very true words here!
If you are serious you can start by NOT calling the largest Christian affiliation which also is by far the largest religious group on FR “Romanists”.
The important fact that I believe should be kept in mind is that the violations by the government is not limited to merely the abortion issue but to the fact that our present government has abandoned it's responsibility to the love your neighbor principle.
That is certainly true. Likewise, the American church has abandoned its responsibility to stand up for what is right and to mandate morality to its congregations which they then would apply in their civic lives.
So let's stop the appeals to a false theological unity and embrace the natural law unity known to all men that coercion or fraud used against a neighbor, that by individuals, but more importantly for our purposes, those coercions and frauds perpetrated by the government, must be resisted.
Well, Van Til would say that even "natural law unity" comes from God and reflects His order of the universe as discerned by men to whom He has revealed Himself in Scripture.
I like Napolitano. He's a solid libertarian and I rarely find myself disagreeing with a thing he says.
I would prefer he were Protestant, however.
If Napolitano takes over for Beck, Fox News will become even more RC. As it is now, Roger Ailes has scheduled pretty much round-the-clock Romanism (except for Scientologist Greta, whose show I also enjoy.)
This is not the foundation of our US legal system. Our government was founded on the principal that "True law is God ordaining right reason."
The founders of our country realized that man's nature was fallen and government was intended to protect men and property from other fallen men.
"Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are put in this world to rise above." - Rose Sayer, "African Queen."
Who is Judge Naplotitano?
Cicero considered just laws of men could only be based on, and further, the laws of God. If they didn’t, they were unjust. The laws of nature and nature’s God is where our legal system is derived since Locke’s theories were the most utilized of all the philosophers and incorporated into our system of government. I am not saying that Christianity had no effect...of course it did—it was the prevailing religion in Western Civilization for over a thousand years.
I say I choose not to engage in these kind of arguments for some time in the future.
May God bless you and grant you peace.
Well they certainly don’t follow the Hebrew faith Jesus followed. Hebrew faith vs Roman faith apples and oranges.
>>If you are serious you can start by NOT calling the largest Christian affiliation which also is by far the largest religious group on FR “Romanists”.<<
Well, they certainly don’t follow the Hebrew faith Jesus followed. Hebrew faith vs Roman faith apples and oranges.
It goes back a lot farther than that for Protestants. Augustine's "City of God" is the first extra-Biblical treatise (that I'm familiar with) which explores this "two kingdom" theme in great detail. It certainly provided the basis for Luther's conception of the matter, as acknowledged by Luther himself.
True. But we don't mind that they borrow that capital because otherwise they would not be able to reason rightly.
What a great movie, and a wondeful quote!
Even Fox lacks the balls to allow too much truth to be aired. Our experience on this forum proves that to be true. Can you imagine the wailing if someone like Ann Coulter had her own show?
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