In the meantime, I'll take a university where people speak in tongues over a university where people get drunk and fornicate (which is almost every university, including the so-called Catholic ones) any day.
Not wanting to get into a big hoo-haw, but I don’t see the “certainty” in a religion that teaches that one can never know whether or not one is “saved” or even whether or not one is in the “state of grace.”
Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.
1997?
My nephew was a guard at that college for a couple of years and even he talked about how devout they were there.
Speaking in tongues is Biblical. So, what?
I have never felt comfortable with this kind of charismatic “worship” inside the Catholic Church. Too often, not enough emphasis is put on orthopraxy. Even if they are faithful to Catholic teaching, this kind of “Reformed” activity ultimately ends up sending a mixed message, along the lines of, “We believe what the Catholic Church teaches, but we will worship like our Reformed brethren.”
IMO, this article shows how often wrong priests are when mistakenly assuming the role of spokesperson for the Church.
Wrong on both sides of the issue, from those like Msgr. Ronald Knox to Msgr. Vincent Walsh, they don't add much more than confusion to discussion of the subject.
One thing seems certain - endorsement of anyone or anything associated with the Toronto "blessing" has always been a catastrophe. I had no idea before reading this article that anyone in the Priesthood had publicly endorsed the Toronto Blessing. That movement wrought destruction on everyone.
The Charismatic Renewal within the Church has been acknowledged by two Popes; Paul VI and John Paul II;
Pope John Paul II to Catholic Charismatics
Are we allowed to quote JPII? Or is he also on the anathema list?
The present Pope, as then Josef Cardinal Ratzinger, and Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, also had some things to say about it in the forward to a book by Card. Suenens:
At the heart of a world imbued with a rationalistic skepticism, a new experience of the Holy Spirit suddenly burst forth. And, since then, that experience has assumed a breadth of a worldwide Renewal movement. What the New Testament tells us about the charisms - which were seen as visible signs of the coming of the Spirit - is not just ancient history, over and done with, for it is once again becoming extremely topical.
What is the relation between personal experience and the common faith of the Church? Both factors are important: a dogmatic faith unsupported by personal experience remains empty; mere personal experience unrelated to the faith of the Church remains blind.
. ...to those responsible for the ecclesiastical ministry - from parish priests to bishops - not to let the Renewal pass them by but to welcome it fully; and on the other (hand) ... to the members of the Renewal to cherish and maintain their link with the whole Church and with the charisms of their pastors.[Renewal and the Powers of Darkness, Leo Cardinal Suenens (Ann Arbor: Servant Books, 1983)]
As always, we're to test the spirit and use it to build up the body of Christ.
Pope Benedict XVI, addressing two charismatic groups, affirmed and promoted the charismatic emphasis of the young movements in the Church on October 31, 2008:
"The ecclesial movements and new communities, which bloomed after the Second Vatican Council, are a unique gift of the Lord and a precious resource for the life of the Church. . . . They should be welcomed with trust and valued in their various contributions. . . . The charisms arise as visible signs of the coming of the Holy Spirit, not as a historical event of the past, but as an always living reality. . . ."
"The Spirit himself, soul of the Church, acts in her in every age, and his interventions, mysterious and efficacious, manifest themselves in our times in a providential way. The movements and new communities are like an inrush of the Holy Spirit in the Church and in contemporary society. . . ."
"One of the positive elements and aspects of the communities of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is precisely the importance given by them to the charisms and gifts of the Holy Spirit and their merit lies in having reminded the Church of the actuality [of these gifts] . . ."
The Pope emphasized the value and the importance of the new charisms in the Church, whose authenticity is guaranteed by the willingness to submit themselves to discernment from ecclesiastical authorities.
I remember reading a book years ago, when I was a teenager: “Father McCartney Smokes a Pipe and Speaks in Tongues.”
You know its interesting, most of the Saducees and Pharisees, the church leaders and intellectuals of Jesus’ time, thought he was the devil, and did not believe in the resurrection, and claimed the miracles of Jesus were satanic. Sound familiar?
After the Holy Spirit was released, the established church persecuted the believers, even going so far as to round them up and kill them. It might be wise to remember Gamaliel’s wise words to the Sanhedrin in this instance: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men...I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” (Acts 5:34-39 NIV)
There are certainly devil-inspired charlatans and deceptive practices/movements in the world. But praying in the Spirit/tongues is scriptural. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is most definitely scriptural. Spend some time in the New Testament, especially Paul’s letters, and there is no denying this. In fact, it would take a theologian (a modern day pharisee) to argue against this.
Believe what you will, but here is my story. I grew up in a home with two loving, spirit-filled Christian parents. I witnessed many miracles and gifts of the Spirit operating in their life and my own through their intercession. It would take many paragraphs to share the miraculous events in my life. It was God moving in a spectacular way for my family in answer to prayer and in response to faith that He will do what we ask. As I have grown in the Word, I have been blessed many times by faith in God’s Word. God’s Word is true and full of life. But if you read it as a mental exercise and/or spend no time meditating on it, you will never truly HEAR it with your spirit and faith comes from hearing the Word of God.
Satan can operate even in Christians if they yield to his promptings and temptation. When I see articles like this or run across ministries that are completely focused on “exposing” other ministries - i.e. not walking in love, I question who is their spiritual father. It is definitely not the Holy Spirit because God is love.
And frankly, why be a Christian when you continually believe Him to be unwilling or unable to fulfill all of His promises in your life? What faith can you have in an impotent god? I attended a dead church for far too long. It sounded like God was a big lottery - maybe He will, maybe He will not, who knows what God will do? How can you have faith in that!? God wants you to trust Him and His Word. You can’t have true fellowship without trust (faith).
In John 10:10 - Jesus said Satan comes to steal, kill and destroy, but Jesus came to give me life in abundance, to the full, until it overflows (paraphrase of AMP). I take God at His Word and desire/want/enjoy everything He promises His children. He is my Heavenly Father. Why would He not want the very best for His kids including spiritual gifts to better communicate/interact/fellowship with God who is Spirit?
I guarantee you one thing, you will never receive what you write/speak/preach against. You will destroy whatever faith you might have that way.
The Catholic Church claims Peter as its founder. Have you ever really read the account of his ministering to Cornelius and his house? (Acts 10)
Peter had a spiritual vision. He had been filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and was operating in the gifts of the Spirit. Cornelius had seen an angel. He was not born again or Spirit filled yet, that is why an angel had to visit him, but the angel could not preach the gospel. Cornelius had to send for Peter. Peter began preaching the Word and the entire household and guests, were born again and filled with the Holy Spirt - the evidence - Peter AND the Jewish believers HEARD them praying in a spiritual language and praising God.
Peter even says that God does not show favoritism after witnessing these new believers operating in spiritual gifts. Later Paul tells us that God never changes. If Cornelius and his entire household, including guests, could be filled with the Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, why could this same gift not be manifest in the present day? Has God changed? Has the Holy Spirit changed? Or has the church preached against it so much that few people believe anymore?
I find it a little funny that the Jewish believers that came with Peter were “astonished” that the Holy Spirit filled these new Gentile believers. Even born again spirit-filled believers still have to renew their mind and get rid of racism, religious dogma and other demonic influences that hinder faith and love.
I like the charismatic movement in our area. I’m not one myself, but I’m a fan, if you will. They pray with real joy and hope. Hearing the whole Anaheim arena bloom with beautiful sound as people pray aloud during the annual liturgy at the Southern California Renewal Communities convention is really uplifting.
Also, the charismatics that I know are the most loyal to the Magisterium and most interested in knowing their faith in terms of correct doctrine and appropriate spiritual practice. I cant’ vouch for everyone, but there are many very solid Catholics among them. It’s also the only place I’ve ever seen so many traditional clergy and religious. A lot of cloistered Carmelite nuns always attend, along with various brothers and priests from orders as well as diocesan.
Of all the problems in the Church, I’m not seeing a big threat here. If you want to do something a little more helpful to the Church, try saving some marriages instead. That’s an area where the devil has really had a field day.
An interesting misuse of Msgr. Ronald Knox.
Knox was a British playwright and theologian-priest who died in 1957. (The plot Orson Welles’ “War of the Worlds” may have come from H.G. Wells, but the execution came from Knox’s “Broadcasting from the Barricades.”) He quite certainly did not make that quote in response to the Catholic Charismatic Movement.
Speaking in unknown tongues is certainly a diagnostic symptom for demonic possession, but that doesn’t mean it’s singularly indicative of possession. I’m sure Knox wouldn’t say St. Francis Xavier, St. Gregory Nazienzen, Pope John Paul II or St. Irenaeus were demon-possessed.
The 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia is much abused around these parts; Where the encyclopedia records the predominant opinions of (protestant-dominated) 1917 America, Protestants here use it as if the Catholic Church itself has conceded points to Protestants. But I think anyone would find its article on glossolalia still quite relevant nearly 100 years later: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14776c.htm