Posted on 01/30/2011 7:56:56 AM PST by greyfoxx39
................... Nicholson learned that if people have questions about the LDS Church and its founder Joseph Smith Jr., they will often turn to Wikipedia for answers first — and trust what they read. Even if they use the search website Google.com, Wikipedia's articles are invariably one of the first listed responses to almost any query.
-SNIP
Most people don't really understand that they can change anything they want on Wikipedia. All they have to do is click on the "edit" tab on any page.
-SNIP-
Two main factions battle for control of Mormon articles on Wikipedia. On one side are Mormons who want articles to leave room for belief. They want positive facts of history to be prominent. On the other side are people who do not believe in the LDS Church. They want negative aspects of history to take precedence. Both sides think they are being neutral.
-SNIP-
A recent report from the Pew Research Center's Internet and American Life Project found that 42 percent of all American's 18 and older use Wikipedia to look for information. This means 53 percent of adults that use the Internet use Wikipedia. The survey also found that 69 percent of Internet users that have college degrees turn to Wikipedia to look up topics. It is more popular than instant messaging.
But Wikipedia wasn't the only wiki in town. The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR) had a wiki about Mormon topics at Fair/Mormon .org. Nicholson got out his frustrations by posting the text of several Mormon articles from Wikipedia and then citing every Wikipedia rule Foxe and other editors broke.
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
Ping
I’ve found out that whenever you question a Mormon on their doctrines or beliefs and ask for clarification or, whenever you refute their doctrine rather than a coherent reply they immediately accuse you of being anti-Mormon or they start getting personal.
IB4PD
I’ve found that when you show discuss how after being lauded as the Christian worlds foremost document that the Athenasian Creed is a fraud, and that the other creeds are scripturally indefensible ....
... that most Christians go “Pharisee” and call you a Heretic.
The Fact is ... the Athenasian Creed was lauded by Christians from 13th to the 18th Century and was a major benchmark to their “Trinitarian Philosophy”. Then about the time of Joseph Smith, the Creed was found to be a complete FRAUD! Nevertheless .... while the vast majority of the Christian Churches acknowledged the Creed was a Fraud ... they doubled down on the doctrines it entrenced .... thus straying even further from the biblical standard.
It is no wonder that Christ himself called a new Prophet to dispel false doctrine that had become mainstream!
Christ himself uttered these words during the First Vision “... and all of thier Creeds are an abomination to me ....”
the Creeds
unscriptural ....
indefensible ....
an Abomination ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_and_the_Book_of_Mormon
I think if we should get screen shots of these pages and see if they are being changed on a daily basis.
Proof? Supporting documentation?
Personal attacks happen when they run out of answers. Mormon's have been hammered into thinking a certain way since childhood so change is difficult. Also, there is a price for change. If they were to leave the Mormon church or start to question Mormon doctrine, they risk being ostracize by family, friends and of course, their church.
That's a lie! Prove me wrong from the Bible, not the fiction of Joseph Smith...you may consider this a dare.
Wiki is child’s play, milk most of the time. It’s the official sites that are getting scrubbed. JoD pages are disappearing or are “not found”, or are “no longer available”.
I’m finding more and more that I’m having to go to cached pages to find the “meat” of mormon doctrine.
They’re doing all they can to stop the bleeding. They’re losing the war of information and know it.
It’s just a damn shame that there are many just to obtuse to recognize the lies, the scams or they are willfully ignoring them.
I guess that promise of godhood and a harem of wives is just to much lucre to pass up.
After all, Orson Pratt said they [mormons] proved God and Jesus inherited their wives.
Now that is news to many Christians I’m sure. [and maybe some mormons]
But I’ll give the guy [Pratt] some credit where it’s due. When JS propositioned Pratt’s wife Sarah while he was in England and was refused, JS went about slandering Orson’s wife. Pratt came home and believed his wife, JS went on a campaign of slander after that.
Now tell me, just what in JS’s character exudes the traits and behaviors of a “prophet” of God?
- Hitting on a man’s wife while her husband is away.
- Threatening her with slander, slandering her and her husband when confronted, telling an apostle that if he believed his wife he would go to hell.
- Bearing false witness by creating false affidavits, etc. Where is this type of “godly” behavior to be found anywhere in the BoM or the Bible?
- Ex-communicating Pratt for “insubordination” and Sarah for “adultery”.
Yeah, “Court of Love” alright!
Read about the 1842 polygamy scandal here at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Pratt
JS wrote it ambiguously enough to permit others to come to that conclusion.
It's an assumption on the part of mormons to believe that. JS never recorded that he was speaking to God or that Jesus was speaking to him.
The use of the word "Personages" is in no way an adequate description of God and Jesus, I don't care how you try to spin that.
1 John:
4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
First off, the warning about testing the spirits and the fact that false prophets would be known by their worldliness. Well, JS was quite worldly. He was a lecher, a thief, a con-man, etc. Many of the things JS did while he was the "prophet" were the behaviors that are in direct contradiction of a Godly man. There were a lot of "convenient" "revelations" that "permitted" him a great deal of latitude.
Secondly, the "personages" description and the failure of the spirits to clearly identify and confess Jesus during the purported 1st vision.
The narrative (1st vision, [pick a version]) is ambiguous, it does not clearly state that God and Jesus, came down, nor does he claim to have heard the name of Jesus, just "this is my beloved son..." (That IS NOT "confessing" Jesus). It's implied through the use of descriptive language. But at no time does the personage(spirit) state absolutely that it was Jesus who was going to "speak" to JS.
Wishing something to be true doesn't make it true.
The mormons HAVE to believe JS was telling the truth or the whole, vile, scam comes crashing down around their heads. The Bible stands on it's own, the BoM not so. The D&C, no chance, a collection of heresies and blasphemies written by a lying, adultering, thieving person of absolutely no good character.
Yep...I've noticed that articles I archived a year or so ago now have dead links...
If mormonism were legitimate, they would be shouting all the history from the rooftops instead of scrubbing it from view. Speaking of scrubbing, has your family been "called" for cleaning duty?
This is an excerpt from one of my previous posts on the matter, note that top level “prophets” are giving their followers an admonition.
“What I don’t understand about the mormons complaining about us “confronting” you is that your own “prophets” and “apostles” issued the challenges. Dared any to challenge them on doctrine. Why then, aren’t the mormons of today accepting those challenges? Are the words of their “prophets” to be ignored?” [SZonian]
Joseph Smith - “Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private” Doctrine and Covenants 71:7 (1831)
• Orson Pratt - “convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information” The Seer, p. 15 (1854)
• George A. Smith - “If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak.” Journal of Discourses, vol. 14, p. 216 (1871)
• Brigham Young - “I have had many revelations; I have seen and heard for myself, and know these things are true, and nobody on earth can disprove them. ... I say to the whole world, receive the truth, no matter who presents it to you. Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it, and see if it will stand the test.” Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 46 (1873)
• Brigham Young - “I am here to give this people, called Latter-day Saints, counsel to direct them in the path of life. ... If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason.” Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 161 (1873)
• Wilford Woodruff - “I am willing to exchange all the errors and false notions I have for one truth, and should consider that I had made a good bargain. We are not afraid of light and truth. Our religion embraces every truth in heaven, earth or hell; it embraces all truth” Journal of Discourses, vol. 18, p. 117 (1875)
Yeah, wife and son spent an entire Saturday scrubbing the nursery a couple of weeks back. When she went to leave, doing a bldg. check, she kept finding trashcans full, rooms dirty, food in areas, etc. They ended up spending an additional 3 hours cleaning up other peoples mess.
They didn't get home until after 8p.m.
How EXACTLY is the creed a fraud?
Thank you, I will!
I sometimes wonder if this is a social experiment to see how far members will go if it's dictated by the 12. Mormon Battalion comes to mind, not to mention the Danites.
This demeaning of the membership by insisting that they clean toilets in the meeting houses while still paying at least 10% of their income would go a long way in seperating the "wheat from the chaff" IMO.
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