Posted on 01/07/2011 2:48:56 AM PST by Cronos
Unconditional election
The doctrine of unconditional election means God does not base his choice (election) of certain individuals on anything other than his own good will [13]. God chooses whomever he pleases and passes over the rest. The ones God chooses will desire to come to him, will accept his offer of salvation, and will do so precisely because he has chosen them.
To show that God positively chooses, rather than merely foresees, those who will come to him, Calvinists cite passages such as Romans 9:15-18, which says, "[The Lord] says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.... So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills [14]."
What would a Catholic say about this? He certainly is free to disagree with the Calvinist interpretation, but he also is free to agree. All Thomists and even some Molinists (such as Robert Bellarmine and Francisco Suarez) taught unconditional election.
Thomas Aquinas wrote, "God wills to manifest his goodness in men: in respect to those whom he predestines, by means of his mercy, in sparing them; and in respect of others, whom he reprobates, by means of his justice, in punishing them. This is the reason why God elects some and rejects others.... Yet why he chooses some for glory and reprobates others has no reason except the divine will. Hence Augustine says, 'Why he draws one, and another he draws not, seek not to judge, if thou dost not wish to err.'" [15]
Although a Catholic may agree with unconditional election, he may not affirm "double-predestination," a doctrine Calvinists often infer from it. This teaching claims that in addition to electing some people to salvation God also sends others to damnation.
The alternative to double-predestination is to say that while God predestines some people, he simply passes over the remainder. They will not come to God, but it is because of their inherent sin, not because God damns them. This is the doctrine of passive reprobation, which Aquinas taught [16].
The Council of Trent stated, "If anyone says that it is not in the power of man to make his ways evil, but that God produces the evil as well as the good works, not only by permission, but also properly and of himself, so that the betrayal of Judas is no less his own proper work than the vocation of Paul, let him be anathema.... If anyone shall say that the grace of justification is attained by those only who are predestined unto life, but that all others, who are called, are called indeed, but do not receive grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema." [17]
I am Calvinist in doctrine and have come to realize that all honest (right thinking) people were agnostics at one time in their lives. I will define agnostic as one who says: “There may be a God but I can not find Him.” I realize that the proper definition is: ‘any ultimate reality of God is unknown and probably unknowable.’ But I simply summarize it with the previous saying.
God does come to us. He reveals Himself through creation, conscience, conviction (of the Holy Spirit in the areas of sin, righteousness, and judgment), other Christians (by their being salt and light), and through the Christ-child with His life, death and resurrection.
As God makes Himself known - it is possible to walk in the light we have and when we do He will give more light. The Magi were prefect examples of this truth. Regardless, “seek the Lord while He may be found”. Christ said “Come to Me...” In Romans, “all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” You don’t want to “die in your sins.” God doesn’t send anyone to hell any more than He makes someone starve to death because the person will not feed himself when he is able. Man decides his own destiny when he either turns to Jesus Christ in faith, ignores Jesus Christ, or fights against Him.
Similar, though I have not heard it expressed quite that way before. It has more to do with those who have heard the Gospel are able to reject it.
Or as one pastor told it, you can jump out of the fish bowl, but not jump in of your own power. He liked to fish.
As a lifelong atheist, I am occasionally engaged by someone who wishes to share their Christian faith with me.
The next time this happens, I will respond that I am one of the "remainder whom God has passed over", and refer them to this post.
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[a] predestined us for adoption to sonship[b] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. (Ephesians 1:4-6)
9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, (2 Timothy 1:9)
The following is an excerpt from the Wisconsin Evang. Lutheran Synod (WELS):
We believe that already before the world was created, God chose those individuals whom he would in time convert through the gospel of Christ and preserve in faith to eternal life (Ephesians 1:4-6; Romans 8:29,30). This election to faith and salvation in no way was caused by anything in people but shows how completely salvation is by grace alone (Romans 11:5,6).
We reject any teaching that people in any way contribute to their salvation. We reject the belief that people with their own power can cooperate in their conversion or make a decision for Christ (John 15:16). We reject the belief that those who are converted were less resistant to God’s grace than those who remain unconverted. We reject all efforts to present faith as a condition people must fulfill to complete their justification. We reject all attempts of sinners to justify themselves before God.
Puts in a different category than someone who has never heard of Jesus at all.
32 Everyone who calls out to me will be saved.
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
some of my people will be left alive.
I have chosen them.
That is what I have promised. (Joel 2:32)
The above is what God says, what you quoted is what man says. It is better to rely on the Lord than to trust in man.
Our earthly life is our grace period, we either have faith in Christ or we reject. Once death occurs there is no changing, read the gospels and make sure you really have made the right decision. God may just surprise you.
God Bless
Cronos asked:
“Please correct me if I’m wrong, but the LCMS view on predestination is the same as Aquinas’, correct?”
Unless I am very much mistaken, there isn’t an “LCMS view on predestination.” There is a Lutheran view. It is to be found stated clearly and simply in Article XI of the Formula of Concord. It is what all Lutherans believe, teach, and confess. To the extent those who call themselves Lutherans differ from it, as from any other article or doctrine, they reveal that they are not truly Lutheran. The ELCA, for example, which still inexplicably calls itself Lutheran, has views on all kinds of things, some of which are neither Lutheran nor Apostolic nor Christian nor even in agreement with the natural knowledge of God that was implanted in the conscience of everyone. The ELCA and its worldwide cousins, the Lutheran World Federation are, by the way, the “Lutherans” that recent popes and their emissaries have spent much time talking to and negotiating with. From which there is much to be learned about the motives and goals of each side for the observant person.
On the other hand, since I am not a member of the LC-MS I will gladly accept correction from someone who is, and is knowledgeable of their verities. The Lutheran position on anything is easy to find and easy to verify. Just read the Book of Concord, 1580. There are several English translations, a couple of which are quite contemporary. Nothing has changed doctrinally in the meantime, since neither the nature of God nor of man has altered since then.
So, read Article XI of the Formula, and then you will be able to see for yourself how closely Lutherans are agreed with Aquinas on predestination. I hope this is helpful in answering your question.
Predestination is a hard thing for many to wrap their minds around. Realizing that from God’s perspective there is nothing that is “pre” in a temporal sense may help.
If God is not actively present, saving men by His grace, in our past,present and future, then it’s moot... no one would be going to heaven.
Wise answer, redgolum. You didn’t say more than you should ... always best when talking about predestination and that which is a part of the unrevealed will of God. Better to spend one’s time saying much about (and even more time listening to) that which is the revealed will of God. Drawing conclusions about God from what He hasn’t said rather than from what He has said strikes me as a fool’s errand. Try operating similarly with other people and see how well it helps your relationship.
By the way, I love the quotation on your personal page: “Never ascribe to malice that which can better be explained by incompetence.”
Interesting. What is difference between Lutheran theology and Reformed on the question of salvation? I ask b/c some Lutherans have said Calvinism is heresy but Luther was “reformed” as far as I can tell so go figure.
Salvation is 100 percent God’s gift from beginning to end (Ephesians 2:8-9); this gift includes the faith God provides me that takes hold of the redeeming work of Christ and makes it my own. On the other hand, human beings have the ability to resist the Holy Spirit’s work and reject God’s gift (John 1:11-12, Acts 7:51).
Human reason finds this contradictory, but the teaching of Scripture is that if someone is saved, this is entirely the work of God. If someone is lost, this is entirely the fault of the individual.
I’m not that familiar with Calvinism, but our differences in predestination are as follows:
We do not believe in double predestination. God is quite clear in scripture He wants “all to be saved”.
Calvinists believe in Limited Atonement, that Christ only died for some. We believe he died for all.
Calvin taught Irresistible Grace. The gospel invitation goes to all but God does not desire salvation for the un-elected. The elected on the other hand are unable to resist. Lutherans believe that the grace of God truly desires the salvation of all when he calls people through the means of grace. This call can be and is rejected by those who do not believe.
Lastly, Calvin taught the Perseverance of the saints, in which the elect who are called cannot fall from grace. We believe as stated in scripture that believers may fall from faith and perish
What do you think of this line from post #7:
We reject the belief that people with their own power can cooperate in their conversion or make a decision for Christ.
thank you for clarifying!
34 “Many are called, but few are chosen” [Matthew 22:14]. This does not stem from the fact that God’s call, which is made through the Word, has the following meaning. It is not as though God said: “Outwardly, through the Word, I indeed call all of you to My kingdom, everyone to whom I give My Word. However, in My heart I do not mean this for everyone, but only for a few. For it is My will that most of those whom I call through the Word shall not be enlightened or converted. Instead, they shall be and remain damned, even though I explain Myself differently to them through the Word, in the call.” 35 For this would be to assign contradictory wills to God. In this way it would be taught that God, who surely is Eternal Truth, contradicts Himself, when, in fact, God punishes such wickedness in people, when a person states one purpose and thinks and means another in the heart (Psalm 5:9; 12:2–4). 36 By this notion the necessary basis of comfort is made completely uncertain and void. For we are daily reminded and encouraged that we are to learn and conclude what His will toward us is only from God’s Word, through which He works with us and calls us. We should believe and not doubt what it affirms to us and promises.thank you
In my 50+ years on this planet, I have never had an experience that I could characterize as “supernatural” in even the slightest way.
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