Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

LDS.org ^ | Dennis B. Neuenschwander

[Paragon Defender]

Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

By Elder Dennis B. Neuenschwander Of the Seventy

 

 

 

Dennis B. Neuenschwander, “Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ,” Ensign, Jan 2009, 16–22

Adapted from a presentation to the Seventy.

 

 

 

In the Doctrine and Covenants we read that Joseph Smith was “called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:2). The call of an Apostle is first to witness or testify of Jesus Christ. Old Testament prophets testified of His coming. The New Testament Apostles bore personal witness of Christ’s being and of the absolute reality of His Resurrection. This apostolic witness was the basis of their teaching. “Ye shall be witnesses unto me” (Acts 1:8) was Jesus’s instruction to the original Twelve. Peter testified on the day of Pentecost to the Jews who had gathered “out of every nation” (Acts 2:5) that “this Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses” (Acts 2:32). Similarly, Paul wrote to the Corinthians that Jesus “was seen of me also” (1 Corinthians 15:8). The sure witness of Christ’s being and the reality of His Resurrection is the first pillar of apostolic testimony.

The second pillar is centered on the Savior’s redemptive and saving power. Peter teaches that to the Lord “give all the Prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

Without these twin pillars of testimony concerning Christ, there could be no Apostle. Such testimonies are born of experience, divine command, and instruction. For example, Luke writes that Christ showed Himself to the Apostles “alive after his passion … being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:3).

How does the Prophet Joseph Smith fit into these apostolic requirements? The answer is “Perfectly.”

The First Vision

Joseph Smith’s apostolic instruction began in 1820. Pondering the questions of religion, he soon found that there was no way to reason or argue one’s opinion to an authoritative conclusion concerning the correctness of the various churches or their doctrines. Short of a divine manifestation, young Joseph could add only one more opinion to the already existing “war of words and tumult of opinions” (Joseph Smith—History 1:10). But Joseph’s questions on religion were answered by the personal and physical manifestation of God the Father and His divine and living Son, Jesus Christ—an experience referred to as the First Vision.

Like that of the original Apostles, Joseph’s experience with Deity was direct and personal. There was no need for the opinion of others or the deliberations of a council to define what he saw or what it came to mean to him. Joseph’s vision was at first an intensely personal experience—an answer to a specific question. Over time, however, illuminated by additional experience and instruction, it became the founding revelation of the Restoration.

As apostolic as this manifestation of Christ’s being, existence, and Resurrection was to Joseph Smith, it was not the only thing Jesus wanted to teach him. The boy Joseph’s first lesson arose from the manifestation of Christ’s absolute, omnipotent, and divine power. Joseph learned firsthand at least one meaning of the redeeming and saving power of Christ when he prayed in the grove. As he began to pray, “Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction” (Joseph Smith—History 1:15). With every bit of energy Joseph had, he began to call upon God to deliver him from the grasp of this enemy.

“At the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction … , I saw a pillar of light. …

“It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound” (Joseph Smith—History 1:16–17).

Joseph Smith’s confrontation with the adversary is reminiscent of an experience Moses had, about which the Prophet would learn some few years later. Unlike the boy Joseph, however, Moses saw God’s greatness first and then was confronted with the power of the adversary before being delivered from his influence. (See Moses 1.)

The difference in the order of events is significant. Moses was already far into maturity and had much knowledge and influence prior to this event. By displaying His magnificent power to Moses before he faced the adversary, the Lord helped Moses put his life into perspective. After experiencing God’s glory, Moses said, “Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed” (Moses 1:10). This incident enabled Moses to withstand the temptations of the adversary that followed.

Joseph Smith, on the other hand, was an inexperienced young man, who in his lifetime would repeatedly face adversarial power and the overwhelming problems it brings. By facing the adversary first, then being saved from his assault by the appearance of the Father and the Son, Joseph learned this indelible lesson: as great as the power of evil might be, it must always withdraw with the appearance of righteousness.

This lesson was critical in Joseph’s apostolic education. He needed this knowledge not only because of the personal trials that lay ahead of him but also because of the overwhelming opposition he would face in founding and directing the Church.

The boy Joseph went into the grove seeking wisdom, and wisdom he received. His apostolic instruction had begun. Among the great apostolic lessons of this First Vision were both the physical nature of the Savior and Heavenly Father and the initial and fundamental lessons relating to Their power—each a pillar of apostolic testimony.

The Book of Mormon

Joseph Smith’s early apostolic instruction continued with his translation of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon gave Joseph access to “the fulness of the everlasting Gospel” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34), principles that were necessary to understand even prior to the organization of the Church. The Prophet was introduced to numerous “plain and most precious” (1 Nephi 13:26) prophetic and apostolic testimonies regarding the Savior, all of which served as models for him.

Indeed, the Book of Mormon prophets employ over 100 titles in their teachings of Christ, each of which helped Joseph understand the Savior’s divine role.1 By virtue of these teachings, Joseph Smith became intimately acquainted with ancient prophets, giving him insight into the divine purpose of his responsibilities.

The Book of Mormon illuminates the universality of Christ’s Atonement. The Savior’s holy sacrifice is not confined to the borders of the Holy Land of His day or even restricted to the apostolic world of the original Twelve. The Atonement encompasses all of God’s creations—past, present, and future. What an impression Jacob’s teaching of the “infinite atonement” (2 Nephi 9:7) must have made on the mind of young Joseph, especially in contrast to Christian teachings at the time.

The Book of Mormon also introduces the universality of the Resurrection and other doctrines relating to it. Discourses on this doctrine by Lehi, Jacob, King Benjamin, Abinadi, Alma, Amulek, Samuel the Lamanite, and Moroni are all rich sources of instruction.

During the translation of the Book of Mormon, the Prophet received additional valuable personal instruction concerning the redemptive and saving power of Christ. In 1828 Martin Harris persuaded Joseph to lend him the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript. When Martin Harris lost those pages, the Prophet felt an enormous despair.2 His mother, Lucy Mack Smith, recorded that Joseph exclaimed: “Oh, my God! … All is lost! all is lost! What shall I do? I have sinned—it is I who tempted the wrath of God. … How shall I appear before the Lord? Of what rebuke am I not worthy from the angel of the Most High?”3

For well over a month the Lord left Joseph in this terrible condition of remorse.4 Then came relief and the apostolic lesson. The Lord told Joseph:

“The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught. …

“For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him” (D&C 3:1, 4).

These words carefully describe what Joseph Smith had been experiencing. He had learned the exacting nature of the apostolic call and to whom the Apostle, at all cost, owes his loyalty. “Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words,” Joseph was told, “yet you should have been faithful” (D&C 3:7–8). Joseph Smith had lost access to the plates for a season and had been taught an invaluable lesson. Subsequently, the plates were returned, and his position as translator restored.

How critical were the lessons provided by the translation of the Book of Mormon as Joseph Smith grew in his apostolic calling! The Book of Mormon is the “keystone of our religion”5 because it contains so many prophetic testimonies of Christ and stands as a tangible witness of the Restoration.

Continuing Revelation and Scripture

After finishing the translation of the Book of Mormon in 1829 and organizing the Church in 1830, Joseph Smith had the opportunity to receive continuing apostolic education through the process of translating other scripture. This included three years of translating the Bible and, beginning in 1835, translating the book of Abraham. Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible expanded his understanding of the role of Old Testament prophets and New Testament Apostles. It also resulted in additional revelation, namely the book of Moses.

The book of Moses provided the Prophet with important knowledge about the Savior’s ministry, including His role in the Creation. “The Lord spake unto Moses, saying: … I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things” (Moses 2:1). Further, He said, “And worlds without number have I created; … and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten” (Moses 1:33).

The book of Moses clarified Christ’s relationship to the Father in the premortal existence and reinforced the Prophet’s understanding of the ascendant power of righteousness. One of the most beautiful of all the apostolic lessons that came to Joseph Smith in this revelation was the confirmation of God’s love. It was so different from the harsh, unforgiving, and judgmental personage so many believed God to be; the book of Moses reveals a God of infinite compassion. Enoch saw that the “God of heaven … wept” (Moses 7:28) over those who would not receive Him. Wishing to know how it was possible, Enoch was given an answer that has a familiar biblical feel to it: “I [have] given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father. … Wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?” (Moses 7:33, 37; see also Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37–39).

Through the translation of the book of Moses, the Prophet also became more acquainted with the redeeming and saving power of the Savior. As the Lord said, this earth was created “by the word of my power” (Moses 1:32) for the purpose of bringing “to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Many long years before the Savior taught Thomas and the Twelve that “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6), He revealed to Moses that “this is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time” (Moses 6:62).

The First Vision in the grove, the translation of the Book of Mormon, the revision of the Bible, the revelation of the book of Moses, and the translation of the book of Abraham laid the basic foundation of the Church, largely through the rapidly expanding knowledge and testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith relating to Jesus Christ.

Revelations given to him and compiled in the Doctrine and Covenants contain a wealth of knowledge concerning the Savior. One could research the numerous topics and cross-references of the Topical Guide and Guide to the Scriptures referring to Jesus Christ and still not understand the breadth of information on the Savior that the Prophet Joseph Smith brought to the world. I am grateful to know that Jesus was “in the beginning with the Father” (D&C 93:21). I am grateful to know that He “suffered these things for [me], that [I] might not suffer if [I] would repent” (D&C 19:16).

My Testimony of What the Prophet Revealed

I am grateful for yet one other thing about the Savior’s ministry that stirs my soul deeply. From studying the promises of Malachi, Moroni’s initial visit with Joseph, the Savior’s words to the Nephites, and the visit of Elijah in the Kirtland Temple, I learn that God loves His children and has provided a way for each to return to Him. I know of no doctrine more just, no teaching that gives more hope than that of redemption of the dead. I am so grateful for the revelations that teach me that the Savior’s Atonement reaches to those who have lived, loved, served, and hoped for a better day yet never heard of Jesus or had the opportunity to embrace His gospel. This knowledge alone would be sufficient to convert me to the gospel if I knew nothing else at all. Here, at least for me, is the ultimate testimony of Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice.

What, then, can be said of the incomparable saving power of Christ? That which Joseph Smith learned in the Sacred Grove about the power of righteousness overcoming evil foreshadows the final scene. So reveals the Lord:

“I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me—having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself—

“Retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment” (D&C 19:2–3).

Our own testimonies of the Savior are framed by the testimony and teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Is it any wonder then that the Prophet taught that “the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”6

Joseph Smith’s apostolic testimony of the divine reality and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, as well as his knowledge of the redemptive and saving power of the Savior, can best be seen by the Prophet’s own beautiful, powerful, and succinct witness:

“And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).

How grateful I am for the apostolic call of Joseph Smith.

 

 

 

Notes

1. See Book of Mormon Reference Companion, ed. Dennis L. Largey (2003), 457–58.

2. See Lucy Mack Smith, History of Joseph Smith, ed. Preston Nibley (1958), 128–29.

3. History of Joseph Smith, 128, 129.

4. The 116 pages were lost in June 1828. In July Joseph Smith received what is now section 3 of the Doctrine and Covenants. In September the plates were returned to the Prophet. See the historical introductions to D&C 3; 10.

5. History of the Church, 4:461.

6. History of the Church, 3:30.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[T Minus Four]

You have got mine too. Toughest job in the world :-)

[SENTINEL]

From now on when ANY MORMON TRIES TO USE MY LORD'S WORD TO DEFEND THEIR CULT, I WILL POST UP THE JST VERSION TO EMBARRASS THEM INTO SILENCE. THEY OWN THIS.

Mar 10:11 KJV - And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

Mar 10:10 JST (Smith added and removed entire verses through the bible thus different number) - And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luk 16:18 KJV - Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.

Luke 16:23 JST (Yes Smith added THAT MANY verses to Luke 16) - But he continued, saying, Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery; and whosoever marrieth her who is put away from her husband, committeth adultery. Verily I say unto you, I will liken you unto the rich man.

[MHGinTN]

I cannot believe Nana allowed me to get that number!

[ejonesie22]

I think we all would like to know that...

So many voices...

[reaganaut]

Yep. Elsie’s posts rock!

Hey, Els, give the goats a hug for me.

[T Minus Four]

BTW, God doesn’t have an erection, which is one of the biggest errors make in Smiths changes of the fascimiles

I know one of his "apostles" who apparently had a permanent one.

[T. P. Pole]

simple question to them a few posts above about which bible they use

You already know the answer, and even when I restate it here, you will claim that we have not answered, but here we go anyways.

The LDS church publishes an English Bible that most mormons purchase and use both at church during instruction and at home for personal study. This Bible is the King James version. The church has included footnotes indicating places where the Joseph Smith translation is different from the tradtional King James text (and in cases where the section is longer - like several verses - includes it in the back of the Bible). But for day-to-day use Mormons use the King James Bible. BTW, the footnotes also include cross references to other verses, etc.

We do not ignore or hide the Joseph Smith translation, and one can purchase one with the changes in-line (replacing the King James text). But the Bible in our hands at church or when we are studying is the King James version.

[Elsie]

[SENTINEL]

"Heck, just listen to what the Mormons say on these threads. You’ll alternate between being outraged and confused."

Tara, did you know that Brigham Yound made up his own alphabet and Language and tried to force it on the mromons after they moved to Utah ? They rejected it, but his attempt to isolate them and the many european converts from the truth by confounding their ability to communicate with the outside world was telling.

http://www.deseretalphabet.org/

[T Minus Four]

I live and work in the heart of Mormon country and I personally love Mormons, almost to a person. Terrific people. Great friends, neighbors, coworkers. Just all-around good reliable people.

[MHGinTN]

Ona corollary note, see if the following changes to the book of nephi amount to significant changes? LDS claim they're just minor improvements to stenographic mistakes! ...

1Nephi changes:

Prior to 1837

After 1837 changes …

11:18 And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of God, after the manner of flesh.

And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.

11:21 And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father! Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw?

And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father! Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw?

11:32 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me again, saying, look! And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record.

And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me again, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record.

13:40 And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which is of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from them; and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Saviour of the world; and that all men must come unto Him, or they cannot be saved;

And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records, which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which are of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from them; and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved.

[reaganaut]

Ticks me off as well. However, I do remember a time when I worshiped Smith, even though I didn’t think it was worship at the time. Now, looking back, I see it.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“I had a different experience. After finding out about Mormonism I decided I wanted to join. It was the best decision I ever made.”

It was the worst decision. You do not realize it.

ampu

[ConservativeWarrior]

Free Republic does not need a “Religion Page"...

FR should stick to conservatism...

Religion is the cornerstone of conservatism. Our country was founded on Christian principles.

[reaganaut]

I haven’t noticed any Jewish Caucus threads.

- - - - -
I have. They are fairly rare, but they are there.

[Tennessee Nana]

Heres one...

Hail Cumorah, Silent Wonder

by Theodore E. Curtis about a painting of the supposed “cumorah hill”

Hail Cumorah, silent wonder
Of the hidden ages gone,
Lo, the footprints of the thunder
Bares your treasure to the dawn,
And Moroni clothed in glory,
Crowns your visage as of old,
To reveal the ancient story
Written on your heart of gold.

Twice a people’s last protection,
Twice a witness of the world
In the arms of insurrection,
To prophetic ruin hurled.
Ramah,9 of the ancient nation,
Dawns thy glorious day at last.
From your bosom comes salvation
And the story of the past.

And one by William W Phelps
composed in 1835 but dropped from the hymnbooks after 1927
Phelps was the guy who wrote praise to the man

An angel came down from the mansions of glory,
And told that a record was hid in Cumorah,
Containing our Saviour’s most glorious Gospel,—
And also the cov’nant to gather His people.

A heavenly treasure, a book full of merit,
It speaks from the dust by the power of the Spirit;
A voice from the Saviour that Saints can rely on,
To watch for the day when He brings again Zion.

O listen ye isles, and give ear, ev’ry nation.
For great things await you in this generation,
The kingdom of Jesus in Zion shall flourish,
The righteous will gather, the wicked must perish.

O Israel! O Israel! In all your abidings,
Prepare for your Lord, when you hear these glad tidings.

Retired Brigham Young University religion professor Rodney Turner’s “What Do We Hear from Cumorah?” (with music by Janice Kapp Perry)20 attempts exactly that. His text adapts the rhetorical format of Joseph Smith’s 1842 doctrinal “epistle” (Doctrine and Covenants 128), written from Nauvoo to encourage and energize the Saints during this difficult period:

And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed. (Doctrine and Covenants 128:20)

What do we hear from Cumorah?
From its heights holy prophets of old
Witness with power and plainness
Of Jesus, on plates of gold.
Their message is truth everlasting,
The truth that shall save each soul
Who, hearing the call of the Shepherd,
Repents and seeks rest in His fold.

What do we hear from Cumorah?
From its heart humble servants proclaim
Men are alike unto heaven,
As children of God, the same.
Restored is the gospel of gladness,
With joy we can now exclaim
“The burden of sin has been lifted
Because of our faith in Christ’s name.”

What do we hear from Cumorah?
From on high speaks the voice of the Son
Off’ring to all life eternal
Through Him who denieth none.
With Joseph’s word joined unto Judah,
Their witnesses stand as one,
The gospel goes forth to the nations
The work of salvation begun!

This next is interesting...

Darwin Wolford’s oratorio The Land of Joseph,52 on a libretto by Marylou Cunningham Shaver (commissioned by Ricks College in 1976 for the American bicentennial), portrays a sweeping vision of America’s religious history. The oratorio, which concludes with Moroni’s final words of warning at Cumorah, has the unifying theme that the “land of promise” can only be possessed by a righteous people. The narrow patriotic focus connecting the “land of promise” with the United States undoubtedly limits the potential of this work. More universally appealing is Wolford’s Song from Cumorah, a cantata for children’s chorus, with narration and lyrics by Mabel Jones Gabbott.53 The cantata unfolds around important Book of Mormon topics, each narration reinforced with a song, as in this example from the finale:

“The stories we have told are in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon was translated from the plates which the angel Moroni took from the Hill Cumorah. Joseph Smith translated the record, which is ‘an account written by the hand of Mormon; wherefore it is an abridgement of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, and of the people of Jared—and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentiles to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God.’

I heard the voices ringing
In tones of mighty worth,
From men whose words had waited
Long hidden in the earth.
When fools no longer hearken
And cry that Christ is dead.
Lo! Nephi tells his story;
And Mormon’s word is read.

I heard the voices singing,
Of miracles, of prayer,
Of Christ alive, but wounded,
Of angels gathered there;
When men again are seeking
A hope against the night.
His words will be their comfort,
His love will make things right.

From: “Hail, Cumorah! Silent Wonder”: Music Inspired by the Hill Cumorah by Roger L Miller

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=13&num=1&id=343

[T Minus Four]

even going sdo far as making changes to the Book of Revelations,

Don't leave out where Joseph Smith added several chapters to Genesis, WRITING HIMSELF INTO IT!

Pick your own link

[Elsie]

faslehood never happen but fairy tales are some special hobby!

When you wish upon a star...
Way up there where Kolob are...

 

 

 

 

 

           

    Anahiem                          San Deigo       

[ejonesie22]

Sounds like the purge of the Trinitarian parts of the BOM.

At some point,early one Smith and Co. realized the value of “godhood” in selling men on the LDS. But if you leave it Trintarian then godhood is right out...

Must have Polytheism for it to work.

[DelphiUser]

Colofornian,

Though I do not start caucus threads, but I understand their purpose here.

Caucus threads give religious people who are generally good conservatives a reason not to just abandon FR to the anti firestorm that most see as a daily posting of nagging nabobs of negativity. Yes, I mean the anti's, flying imams, or whatever they want to call themselves today.

I for one would prefer to just talk politics, but when I see my religion, my flag or my wife disrespected, I feel it my duty to respond.

Do I respond to posts on Catholic threads about the Trinity? I never have.

Do I go to posts in Protestant caucuses where they talk about being saved by Grace? Again I never have.

I do not go to threads that are not caucus threads about these topics, unless they specifically mention me or my religion by name, Let them have their beliefs, I have mine.

Anti's of every stripe and creed that go to threads about other religions to bash them, well they are a group, and I don't care if they are anti baptist, anti Calvin, anti Lutheran, anti Catholic or whatever. As a group antis get very little respect from me, not their scholarship, not their "facts" not their reasoning because they have already shown their lack of judgment.

It was a caucus thread, basically a couple of believers in a corner discussing their beliefs, who cares what they are saying amongst themselves?

But to have rules of how and where the thread is posted be broken, that is a bigger concern to me than if a Catholic caucus thread had been disparaging Joseph Smith and me by name, and had been moved to the smoky back room according to the rules, no problem. If this thread had been seen by Jim rob and he said "Bzzt out of line and moved it to the Smokey back room, again, no problem.

Was PD out of line for posting this? I don't know, but it could have been handled better.

Delph