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Quit pestering us, church leaders tell membership in letter
Mormon Coffee (Mormonism Research Ministry) ^ | Nov. 22, 2010 | Eric Johnson

Posted on 12/29/2010 12:07:25 PM PST by Colofornian

On October 24th, the LDS First Presidency (led by Prophet Thomas S. Monson) wrote several letters that were to be read in Mormon Sunday services around the world. According to examiner.com, the first letter was “likely spurred by Boyd K. Packer’s most recent General Conference talk entitled ‘Cleansing the Inner Vessel.’ Church Headquarters has been receiving an increased amount of correspondence from its members about doctrinal issues. Because of this influx of correspondence, the First Presidency reminded and encouraged LDS church members to utilize their local church authorities – bishops, branch presidents, stake presidents, etc — before resorting to contacting Church Headquarters.”

In other words, the Mormon laity was told to quit bothering their church leadership on issues related to doctrine. We can only wonder why the church is apparently receiving so many inquiries. Could it be that Christians are asking their Mormon friends and family members difficult questions who are unable to provide satisfactory answers? Regardless, the leadership apparently feels the number of questions is overwhelming their resources. I just can’t imagine Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Malachi writing in the Old Testament, “You people are asking too many questions. We’re too busy doing other things, so leave us alone.” Yet this appears to be the attitude of Monson and his two advisers.

Since Monson and his counselors are supposed to have a direct connection with God—they are, after all, leaders of God’s supposedly restored church—it would seem that they have the necessary resources at their disposal to provide answers. Just direct the general authorities speaking at the biannual general conferences to deal with these befuddling issues. But Monson and the other leaders weren’t born yesterday. They know that deferring to local leaders means the hierarchy can distance themselves from any answers brought forth by bishops, stake presidents, and others below the general authority level. Their answers can not be considered official doctrine, so if they come up with unpopular responses or even contradict Mormon teaching, nobody will call their answers “official doctrine.” Letting the lower leaders take the heat keeps the pressure off those in Salt Lake City. Smart move.

I can only imagine the questions being asked that the LDS leadership would rather avoid, including:

* Is it true that Joseph Smith was married to some 34 different women at the same time, 11 of whom were already married to other men and 11 who were teenagers?

* How do I answer my Christian friends who have been showing me this DNA video saying there is no scientific connection between Native Americans and the Lamanites talked about in the Book of Mormon?

* President Monson, there must be archaeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon story, but I’m being told there’s none. Can you please direct me to these artifacts?

* Is it true that three of the apostles have been spiritually married in the temple to second wives for eternity?

* If we believe in free agency, then why is our church trying to buy a street in Manti in order to keep Christians from sharing their faith near the pageant grounds?

* I’ve been shown some very difficult verses in the Bible about salvation, as my Christian friends say it’s possible to know that we are forgiven because it’s not based on my efforts. It seems to contradict the way I’ve been taught. How can I answer?

* Why does our church emphasize Gethsemane for the atonement rather than the cross?

* I need direction on the Virgin Birth. We don’t believe there was some type of physical union between Heavenly Father and Mary, do we?

Are you able to see why the church had to write this letter?


TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Other Christian; Theology
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To: Elsie
 
 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
 
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
  1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many awives and bconcubines
  2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.
  3 Therefore, aprepare thy heart to receive and bobey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.
  4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting acovenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye bdamned; for no one can creject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.
  5 For all who will have a ablessing at my hands shall abide the blaw which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.
  6 And as pertaining to the new and aeverlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my bglory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.
  7 And verily I say unto you, that the aconditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, boaths, cvows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and dsealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is eanointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by frevelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this gpower (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this hpower in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the ikeys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.
  8 Behold, mine house is a house of aorder, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.
  9 Will I aaccept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?
  10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not aappointed?
  11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father aordained unto you, before the world was?
  12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall acome unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.
  13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by athrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall bnot remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.
  14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.
  15 Therefore, if a aman marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
  16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
  17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.
  18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
  19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.
  20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
  21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
  22 For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
  23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.
  24 This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
  25 aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
  26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the aHoly Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they bcommit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be cdelivered unto the buffetings of dSatan unto the day of eredemption, saith the Lord God.
  27 The ablasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall bnot be cforgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit dmurder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be edamned, saith the Lord.
  28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the alaw of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.
  29 aAbraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.
  30 aAbraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose bloins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the cstars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.
  31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of aAbraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.
  32 Go ye, therefore, and do the aworks of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.
  33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.
  34 God acommanded Abraham, and Sarah gave bHagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.
  35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, acommanded it.
  36 Abraham was acommanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not bkill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for crighteousness.
  37 Abraham received aconcubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and bJacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their cexaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.
  38 David also received amany wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
  39 aDavid’s wives and concubines were bgiven unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the ckeys of this power; and in none of these things did he dsin against me save in the case of eUriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath ffallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I ggave them unto another, saith the Lord.
  40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an aappointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word.
  41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man areceiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy banointing, she hath committed cadultery and shall be destroyed.
  42 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has acommitted adultery.
  43 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a avow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery.
  44 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and agive her unto him that hath not committed badultery but hath been cfaithful; for he shall be made ruler over many.
  45 For I have conferred upon you the akeys and power of the priesthood, wherein I brestore all things, and make known unto you all things in due time.
  46 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you aseal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you bbind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you cremit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven.
  47 And again, verily I say, whomsoever you bless I will bless, and whomsoever you curse I will acurse, saith the Lord; for I, the Lord, am thy God.
  48 And again, verily I say unto you, my servant Joseph, that whatsoever you give on earth, and to whomsoever you agive any one on earth, by my word and according to my law, it shall be visited with blessings and not cursings, and with my power, saith the Lord, and shall be without condemnation on earth and in heaven.
  49 For I am the Lord thy God, and will be awith thee even unto the bend of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I cseal upon you your dexaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your efather.
  50 Behold, I have seen your asacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your bsacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape, as I caccepted the offering of Abraham of his son Isaac.
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.
  57 And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for aSatan bseeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham, thy father, even unto his cexaltation and glory.
  58 Now, as touching the law of the apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.
  59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit dsin, and I will justify him.
  60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.
  61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
  62 And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
  63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.
  64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
  65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.
  66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.

121 posted on 12/29/2010 6:58:37 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 
 

 
 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.


122 posted on 12/29/2010 7:00:30 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 
 

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim,

    “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

    · Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

    · Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

    · Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

    · As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

    · Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

    · Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

    · Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

    · Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

    · Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith’s followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith’s own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

    · Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

      “I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4]


 

Endnotes

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”


123 posted on 12/29/2010 7:01:40 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 
 
Polygamy: How it all got Started


 
 
 
Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?
 
Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?
 
Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.
 
Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!
 
Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!
 
 
Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"
 
 
Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!
 
 
 
 
 

 
...and the rest is HISTORY...
 

 
 
 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

Or even HERE:
 

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.



 
 
Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!
 
Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!
 
 


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.

124 posted on 12/29/2010 7:04:07 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

WHY won’t these LOVING and CARING men reach out to the people who actually follow MORMON scripture (D&C 132) and ALLOW them to be called MORMON?

Since the SLC hierarchy is afraid of the Government and NOT of GOD, THEY should be the ones who CANNOT be called MORMONs: NOT the FUNDAMENTALISTs!


All non-issues covered at the links provided. /yawn


125 posted on 12/29/2010 7:08:42 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Elsie

Don’t you know that the Lord also talks to His children through the scriptures.


126 posted on 12/29/2010 7:16:01 PM PST by restornu
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To: Elsie

I’m not sure I see much of a difference between Smith and L. Ron Hubbard, IMHO.


127 posted on 12/29/2010 7:18:57 PM PST by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.....)
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To: Elsie

Actually polygamy needed another proclamation, a 2nd manifesto a few years later...

1890 didnt stop it...

The mormons just lied to the US government so they could keep their ill gotten gains, and land...

and several mormons (like the Romneys) just went to Mexico or Canada to continue living in their adulterous relationships..

In 1904 Joseph F Smith,the CEO of mormonism published a statement that became known as the 2nd manifesto. he said that there had been no polygamous marriages after 1890 and then said anyone practicing polygamy from 1904 on would be ex-communicated.

In Nov 1906 this same Joseph F Smith was charged with “unlawful cohabitation” (polygamy) and paid a fine to the court.

From 1904 for several years many mormon GAs were excommunicated but not Joseph F Smith...why did he getr a pass ??? Smith even had a committee to spy on the mormons to make sure they toed the company line...who was watching Smith ???

Until 1910 a local newspaper even published the names of guys who were caught in adultry...was Smiths name among them ???

until about 1930 known polygamists still spoke at the mormon conferences

So 1890 didnt stop polygamy in mormonism...it just went underground to fool the Christian neighbors and the US government...

After all a “first principal” must always stay in the forefront of a pagan religion...


128 posted on 12/29/2010 7:48:06 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Elsie

Thanks Tom Tom

You show the way

not necessarily the right way...

but one of the many...

MormonDudee (MormonDudes lil sis)


129 posted on 12/29/2010 7:51:27 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Elsie

AH

The 12 Apostates


130 posted on 12/29/2010 7:53:32 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: jimt

You could always do what they do: make up a series of posts containing gross mischaracterizations if not outright lies, as long as they are severely derogatory, in fact downright insulting. They need not logically address an issue - you want to get your opponents so flustered with the insults they CAN’T logically respond.

You have the opportunity to actually SHOW these 'lies' and 'mischaracterizations' right now.

 

 

Of course a good Mormon boy wouldn’t do that.  

(You spelled CAN'T wrong)

 

 

But then I’m not a good (or even bad) Mormon boy.

But you ARE a very good bootlicker for the MORMON cause.


131 posted on 12/30/2010 4:35:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender


Comment #74 Removed by Moderator

Comment #75 Removed by Moderator

.
.
.
 

Comment #108 Removed by Moderator

Comment #109 Removed by Moderator

Comment #110 Removed by Moderator

To: Elsie

I’ve misrepresented a lot of replies from YOUR links into FR.


phhhtt fixed that for ya

111 posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 9:42:56 PM by Paragon Defender
 
 


 

 

 
Eerily familiar...
 
 

Party ownership of the print media
made it easy to manipulate public opinion,
and the film and radio carried the process further.


 



16. Ministry Of Truth

.......

The Ministry of Truth, Winston's place of work, contained, it was said, three thousand rooms above ground level, and corresponding ramifications below.

The Ministry of Truth concerned itself with Lies. Party ownership of the print media made it easy to manipulate public opinion, and the film and radio carried the process further.

The primary job of the Ministry of Truth was to supply the citizens of Oceania with newspapers, films, textbooks, telescreen programmes, plays, novels - with every conceivable kind of information, instruction, or entertainment, from a statue to a slogan, from a lyric poem to a biological treatise, and from a child's spelling-book to a Newspeak dictionary.

Winston worked in the RECORDS DEPARTMENT (a single branch of the Ministry of Truth) editing and writing for The Times. He dictated into a machine called a speakwrite. Winston would receive articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to alter, or, in Newspeak, rectify. If, for example, the Ministry of Plenty forecast a surplus, and in reality the result was grossly less, Winston's job was to change previous versions so the old version would agree with the new one. This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, sound-tracks, cartoons, photographs - to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance.

When his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. He dialed 'back numbers' on the telescreen and called for the appropriate issues of The Times, which slid out of the pneumatic tube after only a few minutes' delay. The messages he had received referred to articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to rectify.

In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages; to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and on the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.

As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames.

What happened in the unseen labyrinth to which the tubes led, he did not know in detail, but he did know in general terms. As soon as all the corrections which happened to be necessary in any particular number of The Times had been assembled and collated, that number would be reprinted, the original copy destroyed, and the corrected copy placed on the files in its stead.

In the cubicle next to him the little woman with sandy hair toiled day in day out, simply at tracking down and deleting from the Press the names of people who had been vaporized and were therefore considered never to have existed. And this hall, with its fifty workers or thereabouts, was only one-sub-section, a single cell, as it were, in the huge complexity of the Records Department. Beyond, above, below, were other swarms of workers engaged in an unimaginable multitude of jobs.

There were huge printing-shops and their sub editors, their typography experts, and their elaborately equipped studios for the faking of photographs. There was the tele-programmes section with its engineers, its producers and its teams of actors specially chosen for their skill in imitating voices; clerks whose job was simply to draw up lists of books and periodicals which were due for recall; vast repositories where the corrected documents were stored; and the hidden furnaces where the original copies were destroyed.

And somewhere or other, quite anonymous, there were the directing brains who co-ordinated the whole effort and laid down the lines of policy which made it necessary that this fragment of the past should be preserved, that one falsified, and the other rubbed out of existence.

 
 

132 posted on 12/30/2010 4:41:28 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender

Actaully in this case, no it is not...


133 posted on 12/30/2010 4:52:02 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Paragon Defender
All non-issues covered at the links provided. /yawn

Could you show an Investigator just ONE of these, without making him search in vain?

134 posted on 12/30/2010 5:57:03 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Osage Orange
Why do you call Christians who disagree with mormonism, hater's?

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with "Mormonism", as you call it. I don't agree myself.

What I don't like is the tone and language used, and the methods. When I see day after day after day of constant posts snidely attacking anyone's religious beliefs it offends me. And the level of "discussion" therein consists of name calling and long, pre-prepared posts of "facts" that are not meant to enlighten, but obfuscate.

Also, I didn't call the participants "haters" (that lovely liberal word) but participants in a "three minute hate". Because it's as brainless as Orwell's illustration.

Do you also call the hundreds of thousands of ex-moromon's hater's too?

Never have, on that basis. First, it's not a word I use, second, I don't hold myself out as a judge of anybody's religious beliefs. Don't want to be a Mormon anymore ? Fine with me. Want to argue the doctrine is incorrect ? Fine with me ?

Want to snidely attack - "Is it true Joseph Smith had 3,946 wives ?" Not fine with me. It's an old, old tactic, vividly taught to me by a young man in the Army who stiffed me for ten bucks. You simply begin throwing out absurd but derogatory charges. Regardless of what your target does, you keep talking and pile on more. You ignore any answer. If an opportunity arises in an answer to make the respondent look foolish, you take it, but immediately pile on with more derogatory charges.

It's not a nice thing to do.

135 posted on 12/30/2010 6:43:46 AM PST by jimt
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To: Elsie
But you ARE a very good bootlicker for the MORMON cause.

Nah, that's not meant to be insulting, certainly not !

/sarcasm

136 posted on 12/30/2010 6:49:38 AM PST by jimt
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To: Paragon Defender
I read your links, how come there is no explanation in any one of them for why there is no historical / archaeological / genetic / linguistic / anthropological evidence for Lamanites or Nephites. They are a fictional people.

Let's ask you, PD some questions:
  1. Who was Moroni? He was the last member of a tribe called Nephites
  2. What did Moroni supposedly give J SMith? The book of Mormon, the supposedly "holy book" of the Mormons
  3. Who were the Nephites? They were supposedly Semitic peoples in North America, the lost tribes<
  4. is there any historical proof for these in tales of native americans? no
  5. is there any archaeological evidence for them not being fictional? no
  6. is there any trace of the Jewish genes or haplogroups among Native Americans? no
  7. Do Native American languages have any trace of semitic languages in them? No
  8. Are there historical/genetic/archaeological proof of American civilisations from 1000 BC to 600 AD, the supposed timeline of the Lamanites? Yes, adequate proof of Toltecs, Olmecs etc. exist -- at the very least there should be some shards of pottery resembling 300 BC Israel, but none exists
  9. So, if the Nephites were a non-existent, then could Moroni be a member of this non-existent group? If he was fictional, yes. Otherwise, no
  10. So, if Moroni was fictional, could he have given any "golden tablets" to J Smith? No
  11. So, the "golden tablets" are fictional? yes
  12. So, the book of Mormon is fictional? Yes
  13. What is the book of Abraham? Supposed texts translated by J SMith talking about Abraham, when in actuality they were papyrus fragments of the book of the dead
  14. Did J Smith say he translated these? Yes
  15. Were his translations correct? No, he made-up a story since at that time hieroglyphs were not translatable. Now they are and we know that the book of Abraham is actually a fragment of the Book of the Dead of ancient egypt, dedicated to the god Osiris
What conclusion do we make of this? That that book of Mormon and the book of Abraham are pieces of fiction.
137 posted on 12/30/2010 7:15:38 AM PST by Cronos (Kto jestem? Nie wiem! Ale moj Bog wie!)
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To: Paragon Defender
To all those who don't know the meaning of these terms (and I didn't until I read PD's links)
According to the Book of Mormon, the family of Lehi (a wealthy Hebrew prophet), the family of Ishmael, and Zoram traveled from the Middle East circa 600 BC to the Americas by boat. Some time after the death of Lehi (in the Americas), one of the sons of Lehi, Nephi, overheard that his brothers were plotting to kill him, so Nephi, his family, and his followers left and went into the wilderness. The followers of Nephi called themselves Nephites. The followers of Laman, Lehi's oldest sons, were called Lamanites.[1] The Nephites later discovered another civilization living in America, and the combined group also called themselves Nephites. According to the Book of Mormon, there were many interactions between the Lamanites and the Nephites; intermittent war, trade, and proselytizing transpired with varying degrees of success. God initially marked the Lamanites with a darker skin color to identify them and their state of wickedness. The Nephites were initially righteous, though over time, individuals and sub-groups defected and joined the Lamanites. Likewise, some penitent Lamanites defected to the Nephites.

Many Latter Day Saints believe that the Lamanites comprise some part, if not the primary origin, of Native Americans. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) appears to accept this position,[6][7] although the church has stated its view that "[n]othing in the Book of Mormon precludes migration into the Americas by peoples of Asiatic origin."[8] The introduction to the 1981 LDS Church edition of the Book of Mormon stated, "[T]he Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."[9] The wording was changed in the 2006 Doubleday edition and subsequent editions published by the LDS Church, stating only that the Lamanites "are among the ancestors of the American Indians."[10][11] Many Latter Day Saints also consider Polynesian peoples and the other indigenous peoples of the Americas to be Lamanites.[6][12][13] A 1971 church magazine article referred to Lamanites as "consist[ing] of the Indians of all the Americas as well as the islanders of the Pacific."[14]
What is funny to any reader of history even a casual one is that there is no historical evidence for these semitic peoples in pre-Columbine America. There is no myth about them among native Americans, there is no archaeological evidence, there is no trace of any semitic in native american languages, there is no genetic link at all among native americans.

The entire story of Lamanites and Nephites, the story on which Mormonism is hinged (since the Lamanites were supposedly the tribe of Moroni, the angel --> The Book of Mormon tells that Moroni served under his father, the commander in chief of 23 groups of about ten thousand Nephites each[3], who battled against the Lamanites. Upon the Nephites' defeat, Moroni was forced to go into hiding and to wander from place to place to avoid being killed by the victorious Lamanites. (See Cumorah for more information on this battle.) Moroni was the last known survivor of the Nephite nation.)

Upon completion of the record, written on golden plates, Moroni buried the plates in a stone box in a hill in what is now Wayne County, New York, where they were recovered by Joseph Smith. A 12-meter granite and bronze monument to Moroni has been placed by Latter-day Saints on this hill, which they call Cumorah. --> there is of course no trace of these golden plates and no one saw them save J. Smith and his inner circle

These plates were written in what is called "reformed Egyptian" -- which is a made-up squiggles (not even a language, unlike say Orcish) made-up by J Smith.
138 posted on 12/30/2010 7:16:32 AM PST by Cronos (Kto jestem? Nie wiem! Ale moj Bog wie!)
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To: restornu

Do you consider the Book of Abraham to be “scripture”?


139 posted on 12/30/2010 7:19:35 AM PST by Cronos (Kto jestem? Nie wiem! Ale moj Bog wie!)
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To: jimt

“And the level of “discussion” therein consists of name calling and long, pre-prepared posts of “facts” that are not meant to enlighten, but obfuscate.”

MIND READING on your part. Wrong, btw.


140 posted on 12/30/2010 7:40:22 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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