Posted on 12/29/2010 12:07:25 PM PST by Colofornian
The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy. |
The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy. |
In the heat of the Missouri Mormon War of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim,
I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword. So shall it eventually be with usJoseph Smith or the Sword! [1]
It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some strikingand troublingparallels. Consider the following.
· Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]
· Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.
· Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new spin. In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and charactersbut he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to correct the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the Inspired Version, in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is correcting it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.
· As a part of their new scriptural spin, both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bibleby name.
· Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.[3]
· Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophets own superior revelation.
· Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered infidels, pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.
· Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.
· Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammeds followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammeds son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smiths followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smiths own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.
· Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.
I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.[4]
Endnotes
[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230231. Fawn Brodies footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 579, 97129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHICHAPTER 224 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
Or even HERE:
1 Timothy 3:2-3
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.Titus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTSSECTION 1325157, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 5866, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
WHY won’t these LOVING and CARING men reach out to the people who actually follow MORMON scripture (D&C 132) and ALLOW them to be called MORMON?
Since the SLC hierarchy is afraid of the Government and NOT of GOD, THEY should be the ones who CANNOT be called MORMONs: NOT the FUNDAMENTALISTs!
All non-issues covered at the links provided. /yawn
Don’t you know that the Lord also talks to His children through the scriptures.
I’m not sure I see much of a difference between Smith and L. Ron Hubbard, IMHO.
Actually polygamy needed another proclamation, a 2nd manifesto a few years later...
1890 didnt stop it...
The mormons just lied to the US government so they could keep their ill gotten gains, and land...
and several mormons (like the Romneys) just went to Mexico or Canada to continue living in their adulterous relationships..
In 1904 Joseph F Smith,the CEO of mormonism published a statement that became known as the 2nd manifesto. he said that there had been no polygamous marriages after 1890 and then said anyone practicing polygamy from 1904 on would be ex-communicated.
In Nov 1906 this same Joseph F Smith was charged with “unlawful cohabitation” (polygamy) and paid a fine to the court.
From 1904 for several years many mormon GAs were excommunicated but not Joseph F Smith...why did he getr a pass ??? Smith even had a committee to spy on the mormons to make sure they toed the company line...who was watching Smith ???
Until 1910 a local newspaper even published the names of guys who were caught in adultry...was Smiths name among them ???
until about 1930 known polygamists still spoke at the mormon conferences
So 1890 didnt stop polygamy in mormonism...it just went underground to fool the Christian neighbors and the US government...
After all a “first principal” must always stay in the forefront of a pagan religion...
Thanks Tom Tom
You show the way
not necessarily the right way...
but one of the many...
MormonDudee (MormonDudes lil sis)
AH
The 12 Apostates
You could always do what they do: make up a series of posts containing gross mischaracterizations if not outright lies, as long as they are severely derogatory, in fact downright insulting. They need not logically address an issue - you want to get your opponents so flustered with the insults they CANT logically respond.
You have the opportunity to actually SHOW these 'lies' and 'mischaracterizations' right now.
Of course a good Mormon boy wouldnt do that.
(You spelled CAN'T wrong)
But then Im not a good (or even bad) Mormon boy.
But you ARE a very good bootlicker for the MORMON cause.
Ive misrepresented a lot of replies from YOUR links into FR.
phhhtt fixed that for ya
Party ownership of the print media
made it easy to manipulate public opinion,
and the film and radio carried the process further.
....... The Ministry of Truth, Winston's place of work, contained, it was said, three thousand rooms above ground level, and corresponding ramifications below. The Ministry of Truth concerned itself with Lies. Party ownership of the print media made it easy to manipulate public opinion, and the film and radio carried the process further. The primary job of the Ministry of Truth was to supply the citizens of Oceania with newspapers, films, textbooks, telescreen programmes, plays, novels - with every conceivable kind of information, instruction, or entertainment, from a statue to a slogan, from a lyric poem to a biological treatise, and from a child's spelling-book to a Newspeak dictionary. Winston worked in the RECORDS DEPARTMENT (a single branch of the Ministry of Truth) editing and writing for The Times. He dictated into a machine called a speakwrite. Winston would receive articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to alter, or, in Newspeak, rectify. If, for example, the Ministry of Plenty forecast a surplus, and in reality the result was grossly less, Winston's job was to change previous versions so the old version would agree with the new one. This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, sound-tracks, cartoons, photographs - to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance. When his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. He dialed 'back numbers' on the telescreen and called for the appropriate issues of The Times, which slid out of the pneumatic tube after only a few minutes' delay. The messages he had received referred to articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to rectify. In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages; to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and on the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building. As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames. What happened in the unseen labyrinth to which the tubes led, he did not know in detail, but he did know in general terms. As soon as all the corrections which happened to be necessary in any particular number of The Times had been assembled and collated, that number would be reprinted, the original copy destroyed, and the corrected copy placed on the files in its stead. In the cubicle next to him the little woman with sandy hair toiled day in day out, simply at tracking down and deleting from the Press the names of people who had been vaporized and were therefore considered never to have existed. And this hall, with its fifty workers or thereabouts, was only one-sub-section, a single cell, as it were, in the huge complexity of the Records Department. Beyond, above, below, were other swarms of workers engaged in an unimaginable multitude of jobs. There were huge printing-shops and their sub editors, their typography experts, and their elaborately equipped studios for the faking of photographs. There was the tele-programmes section with its engineers, its producers and its teams of actors specially chosen for their skill in imitating voices; clerks whose job was simply to draw up lists of books and periodicals which were due for recall; vast repositories where the corrected documents were stored; and the hidden furnaces where the original copies were destroyed. And somewhere or other, quite anonymous, there were the directing brains who co-ordinated the whole effort and laid down the lines of policy which made it necessary that this fragment of the past should be preserved, that one falsified, and the other rubbed out of existence. |
Actaully in this case, no it is not...
Could you show an Investigator just ONE of these, without making him search in vain?
Nothing wrong with disagreeing with "Mormonism", as you call it. I don't agree myself.
What I don't like is the tone and language used, and the methods. When I see day after day after day of constant posts snidely attacking anyone's religious beliefs it offends me. And the level of "discussion" therein consists of name calling and long, pre-prepared posts of "facts" that are not meant to enlighten, but obfuscate.
Also, I didn't call the participants "haters" (that lovely liberal word) but participants in a "three minute hate". Because it's as brainless as Orwell's illustration.
Do you also call the hundreds of thousands of ex-moromon's hater's too?
Never have, on that basis. First, it's not a word I use, second, I don't hold myself out as a judge of anybody's religious beliefs. Don't want to be a Mormon anymore ? Fine with me. Want to argue the doctrine is incorrect ? Fine with me ?
Want to snidely attack - "Is it true Joseph Smith had 3,946 wives ?" Not fine with me. It's an old, old tactic, vividly taught to me by a young man in the Army who stiffed me for ten bucks. You simply begin throwing out absurd but derogatory charges. Regardless of what your target does, you keep talking and pile on more. You ignore any answer. If an opportunity arises in an answer to make the respondent look foolish, you take it, but immediately pile on with more derogatory charges.
It's not a nice thing to do.
Nah, that's not meant to be insulting, certainly not !
/sarcasm
According to the Book of Mormon, the family of Lehi (a wealthy Hebrew prophet), the family of Ishmael, and Zoram traveled from the Middle East circa 600 BC to the Americas by boat. Some time after the death of Lehi (in the Americas), one of the sons of Lehi, Nephi, overheard that his brothers were plotting to kill him, so Nephi, his family, and his followers left and went into the wilderness. The followers of Nephi called themselves Nephites. The followers of Laman, Lehi's oldest sons, were called Lamanites.[1] The Nephites later discovered another civilization living in America, and the combined group also called themselves Nephites. According to the Book of Mormon, there were many interactions between the Lamanites and the Nephites; intermittent war, trade, and proselytizing transpired with varying degrees of success. God initially marked the Lamanites with a darker skin color to identify them and their state of wickedness. The Nephites were initially righteous, though over time, individuals and sub-groups defected and joined the Lamanites. Likewise, some penitent Lamanites defected to the Nephites.What is funny to any reader of history even a casual one is that there is no historical evidence for these semitic peoples in pre-Columbine America. There is no myth about them among native Americans, there is no archaeological evidence, there is no trace of any semitic in native american languages, there is no genetic link at all among native americans.
Many Latter Day Saints believe that the Lamanites comprise some part, if not the primary origin, of Native Americans. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) appears to accept this position,[6][7] although the church has stated its view that "[n]othing in the Book of Mormon precludes migration into the Americas by peoples of Asiatic origin."[8] The introduction to the 1981 LDS Church edition of the Book of Mormon stated, "[T]he Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."[9] The wording was changed in the 2006 Doubleday edition and subsequent editions published by the LDS Church, stating only that the Lamanites "are among the ancestors of the American Indians."[10][11] Many Latter Day Saints also consider Polynesian peoples and the other indigenous peoples of the Americas to be Lamanites.[6][12][13] A 1971 church magazine article referred to Lamanites as "consist[ing] of the Indians of all the Americas as well as the islanders of the Pacific."[14]
Do you consider the Book of Abraham to be “scripture”?
“And the level of “discussion” therein consists of name calling and long, pre-prepared posts of “facts” that are not meant to enlighten, but obfuscate.”
MIND READING on your part. Wrong, btw.
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