Mormon scholar under fire

Christianity Today ^ | 3/01/2003 | John W. Kennedy

[delacoert]

Thomas W. Murphy is the latest Mormon scholar to challenge key teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS). Murphy, 35, has likened the Book of Mormon, an essential LDS sacred text, to inspirational fiction.

Narrowly avoiding a disciplinary meeting, Murphy remains an LDS member of record for the time being.

Murphy is chairman of the anthropology department at Edmonds Community College in Lynnwood, Washington. Last year he wrote an essay, "Lamanite Genesis, Genealogy, and Genetics," for a Signature Books anthology called American Apocrypha. Murphy concluded, "dna research lends no support to traditional Mormon beliefs about the origins of Native Americans." Murphy's doctoral dissertation is the basis of the essay. The Book of Mormon details migrations of Israelites to the Western Hemisphere more than 4,200 years ago. According to the book, some of the people were Lamanites, cursed with dark skin because of sin. The current introduction to the Book of Mormon claims that Lamanites were ancestors of American Indians.

In his essay, Murphy reviewed recent human molecular genealogy studies that contradict that claim. "To date no intimate genetic link has been found between ancient Israelites and the indigenous peoples of the Americas," Murphy said.

He noted that researchers genetically link American Indians with native Siberians. Murphy told The Chronicle of Higher Education that some Mormon intellectuals want to debate the Book of Mormon "as fiction, possibly inspired, but as fiction."

...

Excommunicated Mormon historian Lavina Fielding Anderson told Signature Books that at least two other scholars have faced expulsion in recent months. According to critics, six other scholars, including Anderson, faced church discipline in 1993.

[Bodleian_Girl]

I was just reading on your FR page that you wanted to go back to being catholic but your wife didn’t approve.

Just thought it was interesting.

[greyfoxx39]

I really like it when a mormon shows true colors about how they feel about someone leaving mormonism...their posts just reek of frustration...

This is a good time to post Szonian's testimony.

***********************************

I’ll do it openly as opposed to “privately”. I’m not ashamed.

I expect there will be those who will look for fault or choose to attempt to draw a response out of me, but I’m learning that the right decisions are more often than not the toughest.

I grew up in an agnostic home. My father was not a religious man by any stretch of the imagination. The only time I went to church was when my friends and I went together and that was only so I could hang out with them.

There was a mormon family in our very small town of about 1500. Good people, Maxine, the wife and mother was a phenomenal person and an even better cook. Her son Wade was one of my best friends even though he was a year older. Although I never understood why he couldn’t hang out with us on Sundays. It was later that I learned that they went to church and then came home to a quiet day.

I enlisted when I was 19 and spent some time in the mid-Atlantic states. Transferred to Nevada in ‘88 and that is where I was introduced to my wife in ‘89. The night we met, she told me that she was a mormon and fully expected me to bail out. Truthfully, I didn’t care at that time. She’s a beautiful gal. Inside and out. We married about 8 mos. later in a civil ceremony because I wasn’t a mormon. For my wedding gift she gave me a “quad”, I gave her a new car. I deployed in August of ‘90 to the Gulf, 6 mos. after our wedding.

It was during this deployment that I began to search for some meaning in my life and to bring more to our relationship. I asked her to send me the quad so I could read what I thought was the Bible. It made it through U.S. customs and the Saudi religious police didn’t find it. If they had, it would’ve been confiscated and destroyed as contraband. I rec’d a whole missionary packet, lots of pamphlets, study materials, etc. Not much of that stuff made much sense, but I pursued it out of a desire to learn. It “sounded right”, but that assessment is based on my utter ignorance of Biblical scripture.

Anyway, during the 8+ mos. I was deployed, I started receiving letters from members of her ward. Nice folks, offering words of thanks and encouragement, I don’t recall any proselytizing (sp?). My wife would tell me how much they were supporting her and offering encouragement to her which made me feel reassured that folks were looking out for my wife while I was gone.

When I returned, I met the good folks from her ward and thanked them for their support for my wife while I was deployed. I continued my “studies” for awhile, attended services, etc. and then made the decision to take the lessons. It was pretty much a haze. I don’t remember much of it today, but there were plenty of happy folks, my wife included after I was baptized.

We were transferred to South Carolina about a month later. I dove headlong into my callings first as the Primary teacher to the 11 year olds and 11 year old Scout leader and then as a Young Men’s leader in the Deacon’s quorum and Asst. SM. My wife was placed in the Young Women’s. After about 6 mos. we found that we were spending a lot of time apart in the performance of our callings. Me being gone at least one weekend a month for Scouts, on top of my constant 12-14 hr shifts 5-7 days a week at work with the occasional weekend duty thrown in didn’t help things much.

We also found ourselves being used as the ward taxis because we had two vehicles and very few of the parents would take their kids to the Wednesday night meetings. So any chance of us being together on Wednesday nights was basically lost. We lived ~ 18 miles each way from the ward bldg. But keep in mind, country roads aren’t all that quick to get around on. It was easily 30+minutes each way, usually more.

We approached the bishopric asking for more help in our callings as we were starting to feel quite frazzled. Lessons to prepare for Sunday, talks to prepare for Sunday meetings, planning meetings for YW & YM meetings, Sunday presidency meetings, Scout meetings, Scout leadership meetings, Ward and General Conferences, splits with the missionaries, Fast Offering collections, etc. We were so busy that it was difficult to remember which day of the week it was. The help never materialized, we were told to pray for more strength in doing our callings. I was ordained an elder in the priesthood within a year of arriving in SC, and in the summer of ‘92 we were sealed in the Washington Temple, about a year later, ordained a melchizidek priesthood holder.

It was during this experience that I started to question what the church was really about. The ceremonies, (endowments, sealing) were quite “unique”. It was then that I started looking into the “oaths” and to see where I could find these ceremonies outlined in lds scripture. I was told that I was not to do that. The ceremonies were “sacred” and investigating further would only cause “confusion”.

I let it drop since my wife was not too happy with my attempts to investigate this. But a short while later, during priesthood sessions at sacrament meetings, I noticed that we skipped over D&C132. Curious as to why, I read it and then read the reference notes. This is when I realized that this wasn’t right.

I asked the bishop about this and was told that the “lord” would reveal more to me when I was ready. Not knowing where else to turn for clarification, I let it drop, for a while.

We were transferred to CA in ‘94. Our son was born not long after our arrival. I attended sacrament meetings for a short while after our son was born and broached the question about D&C 132 to our new bishop. Basically the same reply. “Why the refusal to answer the question?” I thought.

It was shortly after, a few months if I recall, that I decided to stop attending services. I still attended some ward functions with my wife and son, but there was an almost closing of the door from the priesthood quorum. My wife told me later that she had met with the bishop and elder’s quorum president numerous times asking them for help. They didn’t, which caused her a lot of grief.

I tried to explain things to her, but the hurt was palpable. Our relationship since hasn’t been what one would describe as optimal, but we’ve managed to work through things. I even spent some time here on FR behaving just like the disruptors. Questioning their motives and purposes in “defense” of the “oppressed” and “hated” mormons.

It was during an exchange I had with colorcountry that I really started to read to comprehend what was being posted. I had posted a particularly nasty comment which to this day surprises me that it stayed on the thread that got us to chatting with one another. She was and is an extremely gracious individual. I truly believe it was because she openly declared her past as a TBM born into the church that gave me the confidence to step out of the shadows of denial.

I had denied numerous times that I “had no dog in this fight”, which later changed to admitting being married to a mormon. I then started to read more of what was posted and finally started researching the internet to find out more. The catalyst for my conversion from mormonism was on these very pages. I subsequently revealed that I was an apostate and that I realized that what I had been taught and learned during my active years as a mormon was false.

This is my witness to you. I was a faithful and active mormon for 6 years. Ordained to the melchizidek priesthood, sealed in the temple, our son born “under the covenant”, faithful tithe payer, temple recommend holder, obedient to the performance of my callings, etc.

I have since learned for myself that mormonism is untrue. Why do I say that I learned it for myself? It’s because with the help of the numerous posters who expose the heresies and blasphemy of mormonism on these threads that I finally opened my eyes. They can’t make you open your eyes, only steer you in the right direction. You have to make that decision on your own and then move forward with it.

God Bless

929 posted on Monday, February 15, 2010 9:42:24 PM by SZonian (I see people who claim they are victims of "hatred", Alinsky's tactics are alive and well on FR.)

Link

**************************

Merry Christmas to all on this day of Mormon SMYTHmas

I’ll do it openly as opposed to “privately”. I’m not ashamed.

I expect there will be those who will look for fault or choose to attempt to draw a response out of me, but I’m learning that the right decisions are more often than not the toughest.

I grew up in an agnostic home. My father was not a religious man by any stretch of the imagination. The only time I went to church was when my friends and I went together and that was only so I could hang out with them.

There was a mormon family in our very small town of about 1500. Good people, Maxine, the wife and mother was a phenomenal person and an even better cook. Her son Wade was one of my best friends even though he was a year older. Although I never understood why he couldn’t hang out with us on Sundays. It was later that I learned that they went to church and then came home to a quiet day.

I enlisted when I was 19 and spent some time in the mid-Atlantic states. Transferred to Nevada in ‘88 and that is where I was introduced to my wife in ‘89. The night we met, she told me that she was a mormon and fully expected me to bail out. Truthfully, I didn’t care at that time. She’s a beautiful gal. Inside and out. We married about 8 mos. later in a civil ceremony because I wasn’t a mormon. For my wedding gift she gave me a “quad”, I gave her a new car. I deployed in August of ‘90 to the Gulf, 6 mos. after our wedding.

It was during this deployment that I began to search for some meaning in my life and to bring more to our relationship. I asked her to send me the quad so I could read what I thought was the Bible. It made it through U.S. customs and the Saudi religious police didn’t find it. If they had, it would’ve been confiscated and destroyed as contraband. I rec’d a whole missionary packet, lots of pamphlets, study materials, etc. Not much of that stuff made much sense, but I pursued it out of a desire to learn. It “sounded right”, but that assessment is based on my utter ignorance of Biblical scripture.

Anyway, during the 8+ mos. I was deployed, I started receiving letters from members of her ward. Nice folks, offering words of thanks and encouragement, I don’t recall any proselytizing (sp?). My wife would tell me how much they were supporting her and offering encouragement to her which made me feel reassured that folks were looking out for my wife while I was gone.

When I returned, I met the good folks from her ward and thanked them for their support for my wife while I was deployed. I continued my “studies” for awhile, attended services, etc. and then made the decision to take the lessons. It was pretty much a haze. I don’t remember much of it today, but there were plenty of happy folks, my wife included after I was baptized.

We were transferred to South Carolina about a month later. I dove headlong into my callings first as the Primary teacher to the 11 year olds and 11 year old Scout leader and then as a Young Men’s leader in the Deacon’s quorum and Asst. SM. My wife was placed in the Young Women’s. After about 6 mos. we found that we were spending a lot of time apart in the performance of our callings. Me being gone at least one weekend a month for Scouts, on top of my constant 12-14 hr shifts 5-7 days a week at work with the occasional weekend duty thrown in didn’t help things much.

We also found ourselves being used as the ward taxis because we had two vehicles and very few of the parents would take their kids to the Wednesday night meetings. So any chance of us being together on Wednesday nights was basically lost. We lived ~ 18 miles each way from the ward bldg. But keep in mind, country roads aren’t all that quick to get around on. It was easily 30+minutes each way, usually more.

We approached the bishopric asking for more help in our callings as we were starting to feel quite frazzled. Lessons to prepare for Sunday, talks to prepare for Sunday meetings, planning meetings for YW & YM meetings, Sunday presidency meetings, Scout meetings, Scout leadership meetings, Ward and General Conferences, splits with the missionaries, Fast Offering collections, etc. We were so busy that it was difficult to remember which day of the week it was. The help never materialized, we were told to pray for more strength in doing our callings. I was ordained an elder in the priesthood within a year of arriving in SC, and in the summer of ‘92 we were sealed in the Washington Temple, about a year later, ordained a melchizidek priesthood holder.

It was during this experience that I started to question what the church was really about. The ceremonies, (endowments, sealing) were quite “unique”. It was then that I started looking into the “oaths” and to see where I could find these ceremonies outlined in lds scripture. I was told that I was not to do that. The ceremonies were “sacred” and investigating further would only cause “confusion”.

I let it drop since my wife was not too happy with my attempts to investigate this. But a short while later, during priesthood sessions at sacrament meetings, I noticed that we skipped over D&C132. Curious as to why, I read it and then read the reference notes. This is when I realized that this wasn’t right.

I asked the bishop about this and was told that the “lord” would reveal more to me when I was ready. Not knowing where else to turn for clarification, I let it drop, for a while.

We were transferred to CA in ‘94. Our son was born not long after our arrival. I attended sacrament meetings for a short while after our son was born and broached the question about D&C 132 to our new bishop. Basically the same reply. “Why the refusal to answer the question?” I thought.

It was shortly after, a few months if I recall, that I decided to stop attending services. I still attended some ward functions with my wife and son, but there was an almost closing of the door from the priesthood quorum. My wife told me later that she had met with the bishop and elder’s quorum president numerous times asking them for help. They didn’t, which caused her a lot of grief.

I tried to explain things to her, but the hurt was palpable. Our relationship since hasn’t been what one would describe as optimal, but we’ve managed to work through things. I even spent some time here on FR behaving just like the disruptors. Questioning their motives and purposes in “defense” of the “oppressed” and “hated” mormons.

It was during an exchange I had with colorcountry that I really started to read to comprehend what was being posted. I had posted a particularly nasty comment which to this day surprises me that it stayed on the thread that got us to chatting with one another. She was and is an extremely gracious individual. I truly believe it was because she openly declared her past as a TBM born into the church that gave me the confidence to step out of the shadows of denial.

I had denied numerous times that I “had no dog in this fight”, which later changed to admitting being married to a mormon. I then started to read more of what was posted and finally started researching the internet to find out more. The catalyst for my conversion from mormonism was on these very pages. I subsequently revealed that I was an apostate and that I realized that what I had been taught and learned during my active years as a mormon was false.

This is my witness to you. I was a faithful and active mormon for 6 years. Ordained to the melchizidek priesthood, sealed in the temple, our son born “under the covenant”, faithful tithe payer, temple recommend holder, obedient to the performance of my callings, etc.

I have since learned for myself that mormonism is untrue. Why do I say that I learned it for myself? It’s because with the help of the numerous posters who expose the heresies and blasphemy of mormonism on these threads that I finally opened my eyes. They can’t make you open your eyes, only steer you in the right direction. You have to make that decision on your own and then move forward with it.

God Bless

[svcw]

Interesting coincidence. A friend of mine on FB posted something or other about lds, I responded. My lds aunt posted in response to what I put: Seekers of the truth and the very same links PD uses. Really are they learning this in some kind of class, where there is little actual thought but just repeating some they learned?

[Osage Orange]

I say let the great and dreadful day be the judge of that!

In the meantime...people are going to hell.

That's not a good plan....Resty.

[Osage Orange]

The day is the judge???

[Osage Orange]

Amen............

[Paragon Defender]

Wouldn’t matter if contextual or not!

That statement doesn’t belong — even if it was an asterisk attached in the finest print to a footnote!

You don’t “pray about” dismembering your offspring...

---

So you admit your deceptiveness. It’s a start.

Merry Christmas!

[Tennessee Nana]

Lady Macbeth tried that too “Out damn spot!” which preyed upon her conscience
_______________________________________

Resty Lady Macdbeth was a fictitious charactor...

A figment of a mans imagination...

like Moroni, Lehi, Nephi, Mormon, etc...

Except better writing...

[svcw]

Why didn’t you post the entire statement in it’s context?

Thy don't you post any statement at all..

[svcw]

You assume to much, that the poster can actually tell the difference.

[Larry Lucido]

The Mormons I know have lives.

[Colofornian]

NO concession at all.

I linked to the ENTIRE CONTEXT!!!!

While simultaneously excerpting...that's what an excerpt is, PD!

I do more than what YOU do, PD! I provided BOTH CONTENT as well as CONTEXT.

Wanna tell me why my linkages are deemed suspect & deceptive -- but your linkages are A-OK?

YOU on the other hand seemingly ONLY want to provide context! You just want to give links to e-haystacks & tell the reader, "Here, go find the needle."

Then when somebody complains about that, you seem to say, "Hey, I provided the context. You find the content."

I didn't pull a line out while ignoring the entire context...otherwise I wouldn't have linked to it had I wanted to even consider hoodwinking anyone!

So you continue to be in the false accusation biz?

[P-Marlowe]

Mormon Scholar

Oxy Moron

[Paragon Defender]

I do more than what YOU do, PD! I provided BOTH CONTENT as well as CONTEXT.

---

lol... you cherry picked, misrepresented and then linked. My opinion (not a mind reading) is that you gamble that the reader won’t look at the link.. it’s easier to just rely on your reader’s digest version than to put forth any effort.

My links give the truth. I play no such games.

[Colofornian]

My links give the truth. I play no such games.

PD -- I linked to the Lds Newsroom!!!

You've just proved what I asserted in previous post to you -- it's A-OK for YOU to link to Lds sites...and supposedly when you do that, YOUR "links give the truth."

But when I do the same thing -- link to Lds sites...my links supposedly "play...games" with the truth.

(Well, it's about time you admit that Lds sites "play...games" with the truth!)

[Paragon Defender]

You’ve just proved what I asserted in previous post to you — it’s A-OK for YOU to link to Lds sites...and supposedly when you do that, YOUR “links give the truth.”

But when I do the same thing — link to Lds sites...my links supposedly “play...games” with the truth.

---

I have no problems, as I have stated many many times, with anyone quoting LDS leaders or scriptures. IF they are done so in context and without misrepresentation.

“You cherry picked, misrepresented and then linked.” The issue is NOT with your link. The issue is with your out of context misrepresentation.

You are playing a game. You got caught. Sloppy anti-Mormon propaganda today. You usually cover your tracks much better.

[Godzilla]

lol... you cherry picked, misrepresented and then linked.

care to prove that LOL, no, I didn't think you would or could. All hat and no peepstone pd.

My links give the truth. I play no such games.

No, the only thing they give is gas, beano is necessary to process it.

[Paragon Defender]

I won’t be on for a few days probably. We’ll see.

I hope you all have a Merry Christmas!

[delacoert]

I wrote as much as I am comfortable discussing in public on my profile page. Beyond that is personal enough, that if I chose to discuss it with someone, it will be in private (FReep mail).