Posted on 11/23/2010 12:14:36 AM PST by Cronos
Right now there are churches in almost every country which call themselves Baptists on the sign out front who, nevertheless, arc not Baptists, but in reality are Pentecostal churches.
....Pentecostalism is the belief that the miraculous gifts or signs which the Lord gave to the Apostles and others in the early churches have not ceased, but are still available and are still being exercised by today’s Christians. Pentecostalism claims that God still gives these miraculous gifts to men today. Lists of these gifts can be found in Mark 16:17-18 and 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.
..God’s extraordinary gifts are called this in contrast to those He ordinarily gives in all ages. They are ordinarily not given, but rather were given on extraordinary occasions. These extraordinary gifts were supernatural gifts that enabled their possessors to perform supernatural deeds. Usually when Pentecostals today speak of the gifts or the charismata, they are speaking of these extraordinary gifts, that is, healing, miracles, tongues, direct revelations from God, casting out demons. Pentecostalism teaches that these miraculous gifts, these charismata, are still available to Christians today
(Excerpt) Read more at pbministries.org ...
***Your argument breaks down
with Paul’s mention
of tongues of men
AND OF ANGELS.****
Paul also says it’s time to grow up and leave these childish things behind.
1Cr 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Cr 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Cr 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Cr 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1Cr 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.
It’s been a few decades since I read the book.
IIRC, he was noting that there are groups that are counterfeit and that there is a counterfeit tongues.
I don’t recall him asserting AT ALL that Holy Spirit was the author of tongues in grossly heretical groups.
It is ALSO TRUE that Holy Spirit, like Jesus . . . goes where prissy folks wouldn’t dream of going.
Uhhhhhhh
there could be a list of reasons for that.
My experience is the opposite.
Holy Spirit is the one leading us into all truths.
The BEST Bible expositors I’ve ever sat under were Pentecostal/Charismatic.
They made it alive and digestable, applicable, life giving in ways others never approached near to.
Actually, I’d take Farmer Jones, Spirit filled, rambling on about what God has shown him in Scripture . . .
to a LOT of Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. etc. etc. Seminary PhD’s any day, week, month, century.
All kinds of body motions do not automatically signify that someone is “in The Spirit.”
Discernment is often required.
Appearances are deceiving in Pentecostal churches as they are in the frozen chosen churches.
AS I recall, they noted that there are counterfeit tongues speakers in unChristian groups—such as Mormons.
Your straw dogs still don’t hunt.
Knowledge has not ceased and will not until He who IS COMPLETENESS comes again.
Ditto the rest.
Scripture indicates that Prophecy will be increasing in the END TIMES. Sons and daughters will prophecy and old men will dream prophetic dreams.
Holy Spirit IS NOT CHILDISH and I doubt He feels flattered by your incinuations and implications.
Holy Spirit is into profound manifestations of God's Magesty, Glory, healing power, miracle working power etc. all to bring God Glory.
That's FAR from CHILDISH!
Now I'm pretty equaled out. I LOOOOVE my ALONE time. A good book, a bowl of popcorn, no one around, some quiet music in the background...Ahhhh.
Then there is the me that shows up somewhere. I walk in the room of a party, and people proclaim "Partyman's here". Put me in a group of people, I almost always feed off the energy.
Whats funny is, I never really know what "me" is going to show up somewhere. I can go to a party expecting to be wound up and bouncing off the wall, and I end up being kind of average. THEN I can go to a party and feel kind of sub-dude and I end up being the life of the party.
At 48 you'd think I'd understand ME better. Heck, I spend less time trying to figure me out, and just go with which ever me is around at the time.
I guess when push comes to shove I will take the simple Spirit filled prayer of Elijah over the whooping and hollering of the priests of Baal.
Meanwhile it is late here. We got the possibility of an ice storm tonight and tomorrow and I know you have snow on the ground or so says my broher-in-law. So look to the north and weep a tear for me because I’m not there to see those beautiful mountains! :-(
Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
I haven’t looked at the LaPlatas recently. They probably have plenty of snow on them now.
The snow this afternoon didn’t stick much. May well have more by morning. Supposedly to get down to the 3-5 degrees tonight. Wheee. Better get the faucets dripping.
Have a blessed time of meaningful pleasant dialogues with your loved ones this Thanksgiving.
God’s best to you and yours.
Depends on the translation as far as I can tell: NIV has Michael saying "disrobing in the sight of his slave girls", NAS has "uncovering himself today before the eyes of his servants' female servants" and Douay-Rheims has "uncovering himself before the handmaids of his servants, and was naked, as if one of the buffoons should be naked".
Your mileage may vary according to translation.
As far as having royal pretensions, David basically did an in your face! to her by saying (in verse 21) "It was before the LORD, who chose me rather than your father or anyone from his house when he appointed me ruler over the LORD's people Israel--I will celebrate before the LORD."
What I'm not sure of is whether her barrenness was due to the Lord or to David giving her the cold shoulder: he certainly had enough other women to choose from as time went on. (See also Bathsheba and Nathan's warning to David in 2 Samuel 12; and the fulfillment of verse 16, during Absalom's rebellion, when David's counselor Ahithophel's directed that Abasalom sleep with all of David's concubines.)
Cheers!
Yeah, someone at my job recommended the book, and that part of it gave me the creeps.
Cheers!
That's great, but don't engage in stereotyping either.
Cheers!
I thought so too, but then was corrected — as in the case of the Crystal Cathedral preacher and Creflo Dollar or Jesse Duplantis
Quite so. Quite so.
It’s tricky to articulate.
We are to invite Holy Spirit.
Yet, He is eager while somewhat . . . demanding in terms of our heart preparations, imho. He really desires a holy heart attitude . . .
I’m somewhat reminded . . . though a bit of a crass analogy . . .
of Luke Skywalker’s flight in the alley of the Death Star . . . going with the force . . . there was a focus . . .
Holy Spirit wants our focus on God . . . on Christ on The Father . . . and is eager to facilitate that dance with The Father, with Our Lord. When things suit HIM, He does what He will.
We are honored to participate, to go with HIS FLOW.
We don’t arrange it. We don’t choreograph it. We can’t demand it. We can be obedient, prepare our hearts, be humble, repentant, etc. etc. etc. And He still does WHAT HE WILL in His ways and His time.
Oh, I know the verse about the gifts and callings of God are without repentance/revocation.
And, I know there’s been demonstrable healings and even accurate prophecies . . . from some real scoundrals . . . evidently because of the truth of that verse . . . There are some mysteries about such.
Nevertheless, man gets away with nothing when it comes to Holy Spirit. There’s always a price to pay for insulting HIm in such a fashion.
anyway . . . imho.
THX for the unexpectedly pleasant dialogue.
I think Jesse DuPlantis would claim to be either Pentecostal or Charismatic. Robert Schuller would not.
Creflo might.
I respect Jesse. I think he’s got a lot on the ball and tries to say things Biblically. I like his down to earth Cajun style. He was reared RC.
I think his visit to Heaven was authentic.
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